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Old June 6 2013, 03:56 AM   #46
Crazy Eddie
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Re: A Military Star Fleet and UESPA

Sci wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post

The problem with this assertion is that the Starfleet seen in TOS, TNG, DSN, and VOY is explicitly established to be the Federation Starfleet on multiple occasions
Which makes sense, since Earth is a Federation member.
No. If it's the Federation Starfleet rather than the United Earth Starfleet, that means that it is an agency of the Federation government (rather than the United Earth government).
I'm not sure how that's different from what I said.

By comparison to real life: The Maryland Defense Foce may be an American force, but it is a Maryland agency, not a United States agency; it answers to the Maryland government (not the United States government), and its commander-in-chief is the Governor of the State of Maryland (not the U.S. President).
Right. Contrast with, say, the Maryland National Guard, which IS an American agency.

Actually, that analogy works surprisingly well in this situation. We have UESPA (Maryland Defense Force) which is related to and works to support Starfleet (Maryland National Guard). Due to the nature of the Federation and the circumstances of its incorporation, the latter probably would not even exist without the former.

By contrast, even though the United States Navy's headquarters are in the Commonwealth of Virginia, the USN is not a Virginia agency, does not answer to the Virginia government, and its commander-in-chief is not the Governor of the Commonwealth of Virginia.
And yet, imagine if the US Navy had evolved from the Virginia Navy, that all of its main bases were and had always been in Virginia, that it was dominated by Virginians, that almost all of its ships were built in Virginia, named in a language that only Virginians speak, designed using technology primarily developed by Virginian companies.

We would still call it the U.S. Navy, but it would be recognized that the U.S. Navy is primarily a product of Virginia. It would then make sense that almost every time the United States gets attacked by anyone, Virginia is almost always their first target.

On the other hand, the Federation Starfleet seems to use policies about the contact of pre-warp civilizations and a planetary classification system that come from the Vulcans.
Of course. Earth Starfleet originally borrowed Vulcan star charts for their earliest missions and started copying some of their more successful protocols when their happy-go-lucky fly-by-night approach proved to be untenable.

I think it's just as likely, if not more, that the Federation Starfleet was founded by combining the United Earth, Vulcan, Andorian, and Tellarite space services.
It would be nice to think so, but all three of those are severely under-represented in Starfleet despite having much older and more mature space programs. Both Vulcan and Andorian ships were considerably more advanced and more powerful than their Earth-built counterparts, and judging by some of Daniel's historical records, the Vulcans continued to develop their own unique ship designs even after the founding of the Federation. As did the Tellarites, depending on how you interpret Sarek's argument in "Journey to Babel."

So I think that the "Federation Starfleet" is the name of the spacefaring organization that Earth contributes to the Federation. The Vulcan, Tellarite and Andorian contributions probably go by different names; it is at least plausible that the term "Vulcan Science Academy" is an umbrella term that would include, among other things, the bulk of their space fleet and all of its offworld space installations as a whole. The Andorian contribution might be incorporated under yet another organization, while the Tellarite fleet is administered by the Federation Unit for Clever Comebacks (FUCC).
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