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Old June 2 2013, 12:29 AM   #98
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Re: New Treknology Into Darkness

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Actually, let's reflect on that for a moment. Every space ship ever made in history has had some capability to operate in an atmosphere; at a bare minimum, they've been equipped with parachutes and float devices. More advanced concepts have had wings and landing gear for glide landings, and SpaceX is developing capsules capable of propulsive landings at a prearranged landing site. Is it really all that strange to think that that same basic capability wouldn't be preserved and enhanced over two hundred years?
Every spaceship in history has been tiny compared to the Enterprise
And with both a power output and a maximum acceleration almost infinitely smaller. If the space shuttle orbiter had been equipped with anything even half as powerful as an impulse engine it would be able to maneuver in and out of planetary atmospheres on a whim; that for a slight upgrade of 1970s technology.

It's also obvious that YOU haven't.

It depends on the actual mass of the Enterprise and what is actually propelling the ship against gravity. At the high end of this assumption, the ship is using antigravs and subspace fields to cheat the normal laws of inertia in which case its thrust/energy requirements could be very, VERY low, comparable to that of a Saturn-V rocket at liftoff.

At the low end, assuming a ship of 210,000 tons with no subspace trickery available and only thrusters/impulse engines, a ship the size of the Enterprise would require something like 10,500 meganewtons of thrust, or the equivalent of 300 Saturn-V rockets. That works out to 42.46 terawatts, which is about the amount of energy you would get by reacting 500 milligrams of matter and antimatter.

I realise that you can invent magical technology that overcomes the energy needed to lift something that heavy...
I don't have to invent anything. Star Trek has done that for me. It's called a "warp core." Whether you realize it or not, the amount of energy needed to power a ship out of a planet's gravity well is miniscule compared to the power needed to propel that same ship to the speed of light.

I'd pity the Iowa farms caught in that backwash.
I would too if the Enterprise was constructed using early 21st century technology.
Thanks for the engineering info! I've never suggested that the ships would have insufficient power to escape an atmosphere using impulse power or thrusters, my issue is that the energy backwash should be pretty destructive based on the information I'd seen about the type of power impulse engines use. I mean, if the pylons can survive the event horizon of a black hole without snapping they must be made of an unobtanium/adamantium alloy or something (actually, now that I think of it again, that scene was really dumb too) and so they would be tough enough to stand up to a measly 1G. But just wait until they get a flock of seagulls bunging up their Boussard Collectors then we'll see who has he last laugh.

I do like the 'official' explanation for I.M.Pulse Drive but even that has a dangerous plasma vent, which I believe is part of canon. As should be obvious, I'm a lawyer not a physicist, so I admire the artistry of anything that sounds vaguely plausible, especially if it has an official downside for writers to exploit.

I realise that the writers can invent wibbly wobbly 'anti-grav' tech to paper over anything about propulsion, although if the ship has that level of versatile anti-grav tech there are probably dozens of ways they should have been using it in various episodes. Blimey when you think of all the episodes that could have gone differently if the writers had only remembered a piece of tech under the old regime. How much worse is that going to get in NuTrek?

I guess it's because the current writers seem to want to keep ramping up the tech that I feel the need to rail against it. Magical explanations are among the worst plot conclusions IMO. I'm clearly just a fuddy duddy

As an aside, apparently, scientists have invented a tractor beam using two lasers as tweesers, although it's not a very good one at the moment. So now we have communicators, PADDS, magnetic levitation, the beginnings of impulse drive, transporters, and tractor beams. Rock on 21st century technology!
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