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Old May 19 2013, 04:36 PM   #32
Re: The Romulans as "Space Romans"

Can you provide examples of the CIA making average Americans disappear for criticizing the government?
Plenty, if the definition of criticize is to join an organization allegedly preparing to oppose the government with force. Which is a commonly used definition in history and, alas, in the current situation as well.

However, it's the secret polices we're speaking about. They work outside publicity. Even the most brutal secret polices haven't been able to make public people disappear: Stalin had to go another route there, publicly establishing dissidents as rabid criminals who not only could but indeed should be immediately and publicly deposed of.

Its not like the CIA goes around killing members of the Tea Party or Occupy Wall Street.
Which is a far cry from saying they don't go around killing members in general, based on membership. And not just killing, but generally maiming, dehumanizing, and making disappear. Which is what secret polices do, in secret.

C'mon, you know what CIA has been exposed doing. Even if that's not the tip of the iceberg but something like 80% of it, you have the inhuman secret police right there. And while these big guys have big budgets and big problems, little guys can join in the action easily enough, as secret police organizations actively cooperate internationally.

How many people think the Russian monarchy was a democracy?
Probably more than think the US of today is one. But this has nothing to do with democracies, as a secret police is the feature of any government regardless of what that government calls itself.

Again I am talking about a domestic force rather then a force that operates internationally.
Why? Secret polices don't operate domestically exclusively, despite possible theoretically relevant legislation. Indeed, the ideal form of assassination of a citizen creates a disconnect between the killing and the citizenship - say, the victim is killed abroad, his identity is lied about, and the identity or allegiance of the killer is lied about.

If a majority of Americans declared to be bring back slavery, would that be Democratic, despite the fact it would curtail the rights of the minority?
Yes, by the very definition. And a few generations downstream, people would sigh resignedly on the immorality of their forefathers who banned slaveholding and upheld those antiquated morals that no longer are relevant in the world of thinking men.

Laws change, which just reflects the fact that morals change. The new normal settles in. And democracy is the one system that keeps up with the change, with its unique mechanism whereby the voters can punish the people in power for wrong decisions or deliberate inaction by removing them from their position in the next election, without the need for semiautomatic weapons.

There is a difference between Democracy and mob rule.
But it's not anything unique to democracies.

Timo Saloniemi
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