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Old May 19 2013, 09:48 AM   #50
lawman
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Re: so ST 11 is another timeline [alt-reality]

HOoftheKinshaya wrote: View Post
Tribble puncher wrote: View Post
ConRefit79 wrote: View Post
I'm beginning to think this is completely different Universe,even before the Narada showed up. There are too many inconsistencies in technology for this just to be a different branch of the timeline from when the Narada shows up.
Agreed, the new trek universe has nothing to do with the "prime universe" and even if Nero and Spock hadn't shown up, the events in this universe would have still unfolded differently. ...
I disagree. Primarily because JJ Abrams has in numerous interviews stated this was the original timeline up until the day of Kirk's birth. You may not like the delivery or some inconsistencies that show up but to refute it would be telling the author you know the story he wrote regardless of what he says the story was.
And... so? To abide by what he says would be to submit to the Intentional Fallacy. It's well established in critical theory that a work should be analyzed and interpreted in terms of its actual content, and there's no reason to defer to the author's interpretation of it. (I know, Abrams isn't actually the author but the director, but never mind that detail.)

bryce wrote: View Post
Wrong.

You are all thinking too...liner...ly...ish...

As I tried to explain in another thread, this timeline DOES owe it's entire existence to Nero's time travel...*and* it's a different timeline, both forward and backwards...mostly.

You see, the Trek-multiverse is a reality where time travel is possible, and people from the relative future travel to the relative past, and influence it - therefore causality runs both ways - the past effects the future, *AND* the future effects the past...which also effects the future again. It's all (sorta) one big (mostly) closed-causal loop.

When Nero created a relative new present and future (well, for him it was new past, but ignore that for now)...he also would have had to effect, and even reshape, the past...(somewhat at least.)

...

Otherwise, the new timeline would have, in it's past, visitors from a future that wasn't it's own!!!
I like the basic underlying logic of your theory: that insofar as the Trek universe we knew reflected the results of various retrocausal events, Nero's incursion could have ripple effects that manifested *before* 2233.

However, I can't entirely agree with all your conclusions. For one thing, first and foremost, there's no logical reason a timeline could not have, at any given point in its past, visitors from multiple potential futures of that past moment.

For another, the "X" metaphor you describe doesn't quite work: insofar as Nero's incursion might have retrocausal effects, technically it seems logical that they would produce additional branching timelines from earlier points that would run parallel to the one Nero landed in, not that they would change that same one. IOW, something less like an X and more like a tree, with multiple branches.

For a third, even disregarding the second point, we were exposed to scenes aboard the Kelvin that took place *before* Nero's incursion, in both a linear and a metachronological sense, and thus before any retrocausal effects that incursion might have produced... but it was still "already" different from the 2233 we would have expected to see based on TOS history.

TrekGuide.com wrote: View Post
ConRefit79 wrote: View Post
I'm beginning to think this is completely different Universe,even before the Narada showed up. There are too many inconsistencies in technology for this just to be a different branch of the timeline from when the Narada shows up.
This entire timeline is a direct continuation a century later of the series "Star Trek: Enterprise," which itself was embroiled is several temporal incursions and a temporal cold war (including the destruction of Florida by an alien death ray). Plus "Enterprise" itself was a direct continuation of the altered timeline created by the Borg a century earlier in "Star Trek: First Contact," so this alternate timeline started two centuries before the Narada ever showed up. This was not the original TOS timeline up to that point -- it was the "First Contact"/"Enterprise" timeline.
This. I agree completely. Even before AbramsTrek, we were several timelines removed from the future history represented in TOS... and in fact I'd argue that was true even before First Contact, at least as far back as the ripple effects from STIV's incursion into 1986.
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