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Old May 17 2013, 08:34 PM   #834
Shane Houston
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Sci wrote: View Post
I've explained that Neelix and Tuvok were dead five ways till Sunday, and I'm not gonna repeat myself again. But I will address this:

Halliwell wrote: View Post
I guess you would say that Commander Sisko was a murderer when he forced Verad to give up the Dax symbiont. Remember that after Verad was joined with Dax he became a new entity.
Possibly. I haven't seen that episode, so I don't know enough about it to come to an informed conclusion. I don't rule out the possibility, though.

But I guess all you need is enough hate for Kathryn Janeway to give Sisko a pass for saving Jadzia, his friend, at the expense to the new Verad Dax entity.
Okay, listen: I do not hate Janeway, and I'm not sure why you would think I do. I actually rather like the Janeway character. I think Kate Mulgrew is an awesome actor, and I think it's absurd that there haven't been more female captains in Star Trek, or more female series lead characters.

I regard Janeway's decision in "Tuvix" to be an outlier in her characterization, as I simply do not think a starship commander compassionate enough to protect an innocent world like the Ocampa from foreign aggression that she would willingly strand herself across the galaxy, would be the type to kill an innocent man.

So from an out-universe perspective, I think it's bad writing that's inconsistent with the character.

From an in-universe perspective, however, if I were an admiral at the Starfleet JAG office? I would think Janeway amazing, a hero, someone who saved her crew and the Federation many times over. But I would also think that in this instance, there is probable cause to indict her for murder, and I would want her put before a court-martial for it.

A person can have very complex attitudes about someone's actions, and can think that they did something truly, utterly wrong, without hating them.
I call bullshit. I don't care if you say Tuvok and Neelix were dead or not, you're wrong. You can't have a living Tuvix and claim that the cells that make him sentient, those of a combined Tuvok and Neelix , are dead yet alive at the same time. Regardless of the outcome of the transporter accident, Tuvok's and Neelix's wishes would count..since the two men are still existing, just as the Dax symbiont does with it's hosts. I think you want to think of them as dead because it makes the dilemma of the episode more clear cut that way. But the way it was written, there is no evidence whatsoever that Tuvok and Neelix are dead.

I'm glad you don't hate Kate Mulgrew or Janeway, but by your arguments Sisko, like I said above, would be just as much a murderer as you're saying she is. He forced a combined life form, Verad Dax, to become seperated, causing harm to the host for life, to save Dax's life. I would like you to watch the episode or the Enterprise episode where they cloned Tucker and forced his clone to his death to save Tucker, another close friend of a commanding officer.

Maybe I'm biased, but I did go back and watch this episode again so I could have an informed opinion and a fresh perspective about Janeway's motives. There are some things she's done I'd question or court martial her for, but not this. The episode would have been different if the EMH had not refused to do it, but you have to remember the Doctor himself is a program influenced by thousand of doctor's through out the Federation. You don't know how many of those doctor's, for example Doctor McCoy, would have done the separation. And that would not have made him a murderer, just treating an ill patient.

You know what sucks, and the creators of the episode did this just so we can have a discussion like this, but it sucks that the episode ended with the captain walking out of sickbay and no comments from Neelix or Tuvok, letting us know if they remember being joined as Tuvix.
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"I excel at following the important ones." Admiral Kathryn Janeway answering Counselor Cambridge's questioning her whether she excels at following orders. Star Trek Voyager: Protectors by New York Times Bestselling authorKirsten "Mother F**ng" Beyer
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