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Old May 17 2013, 05:26 PM   #947
Lighthammer
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Re: Green Arrow (CW)

This is responding to stj and LaxScrutiny but since LaxScrutiny quoted stj, I'll try to keep the thoughts a little more consolidated using his post.

stj wrote: View Post
Moira knows that Oliver is hoodie. Their dialogue prior to her call for evacuation makes no sense otherwise.

Oliver should have wondered who tried to kill Malcolm Merlyn. And when he does he should realize that Walter's survival as a hostage proved that Moira was being coerced, making her the prime suspect as Merlyn's would-be assassin.

(Walter's certainty that Moira kidnapped him is irrational but the character is from another series and doesn't understand these things.)

Merlyn is established as maniacally vengeful meaning that all the Queens are his targets. Thea wanders about aimlessly and cluelessly and shouldn't last long, which should give Moira's speech about sacrificing her family some heavy weight.

But the thing about this exciting climax is that Oliver has achieved his goal. Why would he continue to be Green Arrow, especially since he hasn't assumed the identity at all?
I would agree that I think Oliver now knows enough to know that Walter was abducted because he got too close. But after a fashion, he knew that from about the mid season point when Felicity joined the team.

After that point, I guess the main question up until the second to the last few episodes for Ollie was: was Moira a willing party to Merlyn's plans.

LaxScrutiny wrote: View Post
stj wrote: View Post
Moira knows that Oliver is hoodie. Their dialogue prior to her call for evacuation makes no sense otherwise.
I disagree. Moira knows that Oliver was tied to a chair listening as she admitted everything to The Hood. The conversation makes sense, Moira assuming that Ollie confronted Malcolm as Oliver and challenged him about what he had heard Moira admit.
I'd really disagree that Moira or anyone outside of "Green Arrow Cave Crew", Tommy and MAYBE Detective Lance know or think Ollie is Green Arrow.

Moira as Lax suggested, I believe Moira thought Ollie was taking things into his own hands and doing something. She might have feared Ollie himself making the press conference she did and she may have did that to protect him thinking he was going to do something similar. She knew Ollie knew a lot, but she really didn't know how much he knew.

Oliver should have wondered who tried to kill Malcolm Merlyn. And when he does he should realize that Walter's survival as a hostage proved that Moira was being coerced, making her the prime suspect as Merlyn's would-be assassin.
Agree with completely.[/QUOTE]

I don't think Ollie has quite pieced that together yet. He may be thinking that real strongly AFTER the news conference, but before that, I think its more like he thought it was Deadshot. After finding out Malcolm Merlyn was the Black Archer (aka Merlyn) he probably then thought it was probably thought it was Frank Chen.

Merlyn is established as maniacally vengeful meaning that all the Queens are his targets. Thea wanders about aimlessly and cluelessly and shouldn't last long, which should give Moira's speech about sacrificing her family some heavy weight.
Merlyn has Ollie in a strangle hold at the end, and states that his sister and mother will be killed shortly after. Merlyn isn't talking about the Glades, he is talking about murdering them himself. The danger that the entire family is in is evident.[/QUOTE]

Like in the comics, I frankly still get the vibe even as Ollie leaves Malcolm for dead that there is a great respect and fear of each other.

Keep in mind, Green Arrow and Merlyn have a relationship not unlike Batman and Ra's al Ghul. In Arrow, they've fostered this relationship. Up until a few episodes ago, both Malcolm and Ollie thought of each other as "virtual playboy millionaires" (I say virtually, because Malcolm is less of a playboy, but I hope you get my drift). As soon as each other realized how cut throat deadly the other was, you could seen an instant bond boone between them where they both mutually respected and feared each other. It all but makes for the perfect arch enemy.

Even as Ollie was hung in Merlyn Tower, Malcolm didn't want him dead, he wanted him to be on his side; but didn't have time to convince him that he was on the wrong side just then.

I don't think he'll be as "forgiving" later, but I don't think he'll be out for blood either.

But the thing about this exciting climax is that Oliver has achieved his goal. Why would he continue to be Green Arrow, especially since he hasn't assumed the identity at all?
The theme is that Merlyn had always been winning because Ollie didn't know what he was fighting for. At the end, Ollie thanks Merlyn for showing him what he is fighting for. Ollie actually has more reason to go on now, he is fighting for something rather than against a nebulous unknown something.[/QUOTE]

That's just it, he didn't accomplish his goals and in the midsts of fighting for his goals, some things changed forever.
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