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Old May 16 2013, 09:57 PM   #43
Re: so ST 11 is another timeline

bryce wrote: View Post
Tribble puncher wrote: View Post
ConRefit79 wrote: View Post
I'm beginning to think this is completely different Universe,even before the Narada showed up. There are too many inconsistencies in technology for this just to be a different branch of the timeline from when the Narada shows up.
Agreed, the new trek universe has nothing to do with the "prime universe" and even if Nero and Spock hadn't shown up, the events in this universe would have still unfolded differently. IMO anyway, Strange enough, Nero showing up actually lead to events in this universe (Kirk and co. being aboard the enterprise) being more like the Prime Universe then they would have been.

You are all thinking

As I tried to explain in another thread, this timeline DOES owe it's entire existence to Nero's time travel...*and* it's a different timeline, both forward and backwards...mostly.

You see, the Trek-multiverse is a reality where time travel is possible, and people from the relative future travel to the relative past, and influence it - therefore causality runs both ways - the past effects the future, *AND* the future effects the past...which also effects the future again. It's all (sorta) one big (mostly) closed-causal loop.

When Nero created a relative new present and future (well, for him it was new past, but ignore that for now)...he also would have had to effect, and even reshape, the past...(somewhat at least.)

And therefore, the timeline before the Kelvin incident, in this new reality, isn't (couldn't be, but more on that in a sec) the exact same past, the exact same timeline, as the past in the Prime TOS timeline (it is just one that is very, very similar to it - with it's own Archer and even it's own...well, spoilers for STID!)

Otherwise, the new timeline would have, in it's past, visitors from a future that wasn't it's own!!!

And nuKirk and company, could travel back in their past, and meet up with the prime timeline's version of Kirk...or even Picard or Sisko...and just hop a ride with them back to the Prime timeline!

And that would be impossible!

Sure, the new timeline has it's version of Archer...and it probably even has it's own version of Picard (or *somebody*) traveling back and helping it's version of Zephram Cochrane...but it's won't be the Prime timeline's version of Picard.

And I would even go so far as to say the each timeline...resonates...with the other - or maybe it's the timeline trying to "repair" itself...but there's a version of..fate...destiny...well, predestination in the new timeline - hence we get a Kirk and Spock and McCoy and Co. all together on a ship called Enterprise. So likely, there's a future version of Picard and Sisko and Janeway...just...their lives are...different. And there's *clearly* a past version of Archer and the NX-01...and those adventures are probably pretty similar to what we saw on TV...but not exactly the same. (And I dunno, changes in the new timeline past probably wouldn't be quite so extreme as the changes in it's future...for some reason.)

This kinda...synchronicity...isn't anything unprecedented in the Trek-verse - just look at the TOS timeline vs. the Mirror universe in TOS...and ENT and DS9! Some...something...keep both timelines very similar - with the same people and same ships and even some of the same historical events...but not *exactly* the same. (And we learned in ENT and DS9 that the past of the Mirror universe is very similar to the past of the TOS Prime timeline...but it's future..less similar...)

But there *were* changes - and this would explain the reason the Kelvin probably looks different from what the Kelvin in the Prime timeline should look like...and yet, there's most likely a USS Kelvin in *both* timelines.

Here's one way to picture it...

Instead of the timeline's looking like this shape: H <-- where we have two parallel and mostly untouching - and totally unbranching timelines running parallel, with the cross-bar of the "H" representing Nero and Spock's wormhole crossing over...

And instead of the timeline looking like this: Y <-- with only one past, that branches off into two separate futures (a shape that you can ONLY have in a universe where causality only runs past to future....

It looks like this: X ...or maybe this: >< <-- with the creation point - the point where the two (time)lines bend to touch being Nero's journey to the past. (But note, that each timeline is *almost* a mirror image of the other!)

Make sense now? Lol.

I like it and it makes sense in time anomaly, space/time continuum sort of way.
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