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Old May 15 2013, 08:33 AM   #232
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Where did the writers, director, the film say that the Kelvin was an experimental testbed unlike any other ship
I didn't say they did. Here's what I said about the writers, director, and film, and the rest after the parenthesis was my speculation:

But, if you want to go with what was said by the writers, director, and in the film itself (that the divergence began with the Narada's entrance to the AltVerse and attack on the Kelvin)...

and if it worked so well, why didn't the Prime Universe go with that design?
IMO, because the Prime Universe Starfleet of the TOS-era never faced the Narada in battle, and never had any motivation to continue building starships of that type to face ships like it. Maybe they were too labor or resource costly to build, maybe they were overpowered like the Defiant, maybe they were not a design philosophy a more peacetime oriented Starfleet wished to pursue further. There are any number of possible reasons.
OK, gotya. Actually, that's a pretty good theory that covers most of the bases.

I spent a little time tonight looking up exactly what Orci et al. said about the time travel premise, and I found this little gem, an interview on TrekMovie.com dated December 11, 2008. It seems to go against the "standard interpretation" of the Prime Universe currently pervasive on the board. A highlight:

TrekMovie.com wrote:
Anthony [Pascale]: So starting with "The Naked Time," which is the first episode of Star Trek with time travel, where they just went briefly back in time and that even though they didn’t change anything, merely by going back in time they created a new timeline?

Bob [Orci]: Yes

Anthony: And even though they are all very similar, that we are up to something like the 57th* timeline when we get to Nemesis due to all the previous time traveling.

Bob: If we take Data’s description of the most current and awesome scientific theory to heart, then there is no prime timeline. If everything that can happen, does happen, who is to say what the right timeline is.

Anthony: But elder Spock and Nero come from the last known Star Trek timeline, which is the post-Nemesis, Next Generation era, right?

Bob: Right, that is where they are starting, yes.

Anthony: And that timeline lives on after they leave?

Bob: Yes.
This is a loophole big enough to drive anything through. The timeline that Spock Prime is from need not be any timeline that we saw any pre-2009 Trek end up in. Orci said so. Based on this interview, there's nothing that guarantees that the TOS past of the Spock Prime in STXI is exactly the same TOS past that we saw on TV. Any number of temporal incursions could have happened after all the events of pre-2009 Trek and before Spock Prime went back in time, in order to set up any differences that might exist in the Kelvin era versus what existed in the pre-Pike era of the original The Cage.

Is this their intent? I don't know. But Orci did make a point of stressing that the final timeline Spock Prime went back from isn't necessarily any of the ones we ever saw before.

But, again, it doesn't really matter to me one way or the other. What I'm comfortable with is that it was a foregone conclusion that the precise look of TOS was never going to be seen on screen. That was always a non-starter. Therefore, to somehow suppose that, if Nero's incursion hadn't occurred, the Kelvin era of STXI was somehow headed that way (to that precise look) seems silly.

Of course, that doesn't discount the idea that the Kelvin is a prototype. To me, it's not exclusively one extreme or its opposite. I'd agree that maybe the timeline was heading towards a reimagined TOS ship with fewer phasers, and without those other white phasers/particle cannons/whatever they were, that would have been much more in line with what one might call a conservatively "modernized" vision of the TOS ship. The ideas of the Kelvin being too costly, not really being made to convey a message of peaceful exploration, and so forth, fit. It really did seem kind of like a battle wagon made for border patrol, but given the families aboard, obviously not one intended for invasion.

I think the main thrust of what Orci et al. said about STXI not being a reboot is that they intended to provide us with a version of the characters that was true to the original, but not slavishly bound by the trappings of the original era in which TOS was produced. It blew me away that STXI evoked, and channeled if you will, TOS so effectively, while at the same time providing the necessary upgrades in terms of production design and effects.

For the life of me, I can't think of a single time in Star Trek where the outcome of a story has hinged upon the actual length of the Enterprise in meters. Or, upon the color of the Vulcan sky. Or, of Kirk's eyes. Or, Chekov's age. Just because Kirk's cabin has a different number in two different episodes, that doesn't necessarily mean that he switched cabins, anymore than Kirk's middle initial changed from R. to T.

Honestly, I think we're supposed to squint and gloss over anything that can't be explained by Nero's incursion, as if that's now the way the TOS era always was, just like we did for Kirk's middle initial.

Anyway, that's my take on it.
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