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Old May 8 2013, 01:30 AM   #124
trevanian
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
EJD1984 wrote: View Post
Just to add my two cents into the conservation.
I just don't like the nuEnterprise "super-size". The overall classic Enterprise visual cues suggest a much smaller size (close to the original). Whereas the Next-Gen Enterprise, gave you a sense of real huge scale, based on the visual cues.

For me personally, and from an engineering standpoint, the TMP Enterprise had the best representation of the ship, size and scale. Plus that move showed that it all depends on how the ship is filmed. It showed that you still fit fairly large sets into the ship, and still get a real sense of huge scale.
Except some of the sets for the TMP enterprise wouldn't actually fit inside of the model at the scale it was originally designed. Engineering is by far the biggest perpetrator; the engine room sports several perpendicular corridors that lead to places that couldn't exist in a hull that size and would only be possible if the ship itself was nearly twice as large as originally designed.

Abrams' people evidently encountered the same problem with the filming sets when they realized that there was just no way they could justify cramming something that huge into an engineering section only forty meters wide; especially once they decided to do it big with the (IMO, totally awesome) airport-sized shuttlebay.

Try to remember that the majority of spaceship effects and exterior CG are mainly done in post-production after most principal photography is completed. If they finish those CG shots early, it's usually for the purpose of sticking it in a preview.

The TMP ship has a few discrepancies, but the big one, the rec deck, is principally because the film's production designer kept insisting it go in the dish facing backward, instead of down in engineering where it would actually fit. (And then that is compounded by the not-so-special director's cut, which adds the officer's lounge in a spot that hovers in space above the dish, given the view aft.)

Wise and the PD screwed up putting that corridor into engineering facing forward (and I'd bet money that this was their addition after Wise had Joe Jennings fired, cuz that J.J. really did respect the layout), but I don't recall anything else that didn't fit.

And as far as that goes, these kind of fall into the shuttlecraft Galileo category of slightly-bigger-on-inside-than-outside, which is common even if you're not doing science fiction. That's opposed to the AbramsMobile, which would be a friggin' TARDIS by comparison if they hadn't done their slapdash upscaling.

Visual effects are budgeted in large part based on previs, so there are low-rez versions of shots in the works from preproduction onward. So there is always SOMETHING that can get stuck into the cut as it evolves; we're a very long ways out from the 'scene missing' cards due to waiting on VFX, on the order of a couple decades at this point. It's just a guess, but I think the scale issue on the Abrams reared its head very early in the process, and it simply wasn't thought necessary to address it till further down the line. Wouldn't surprise me if Geoff Mandel tumbled to it right away (guess he would have had to, since he was gotten gone so quickly.)

Also, you gotta remember that even pre-Abrams, 'continuity is for wussies' was an ILM catchphrase. I heard it invoked for TUC when I asked about why they decided the shields were invisible (in TWOK & SFS this issue was skirted since the shields were always conveniently down when any ship got fired upon.)
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