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Old May 1 2013, 03:05 PM   #363
Vice Admiral
Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
Re: Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

T'Girl wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post
Star Trek is no different. The characters grew up in a post-scarcity environment where one didn't have to work to get the basic necessities, but where "bettering yourself" was the primary goal.
Societies do change over the course of history, sometime quite rapidly. So it is possible to imagine Humanity (or some portion of it) changing into the type of society where "bettering yourself was the primary goal." The problem is Sonak, what happen when the society changes yet again?

You could envision a future society that had changed into a "all volunteer" system. People would volunteer their time, efforts and skills without anticipation of compensation. Goods would come from a machine or a individual/craftsman who would "donate" to you whatever you wish, the same with various donated services.

But again, societies and cultures do change over time. Most (not all) would agree that certainly during the TOS time period money/compensation existed. There is no indication as to how long the "spirit of volunteerism" had existed (if it even did) prior to Encounter At Farpoint. In the time period of TNG-DS9-VOY you're only talking about a fourteen and a half year time interval in Human history, just as you can't tell how long the spirit of volunteerism had existed, you also don't know how long it will last.

In order for your future society based upon this volunteerism to work over an extended period of time, the society you've described can never change. Not even over the course of centuries.

Which seems unlikely.

horatio83 wrote: View Post
Nobody has been insulted, nobody plays some stupid "my party is better than yours" game or whatever.


Anti-intellectualism is by the way most frequently encountered on the right.
You have to admit horatio83, you were being deliberately snippy there. The only thing that prevented the statement from being actually insulting is that no one could possibly take it seriously.

there are two components to what I was saying:

1. yes, a new culture of "volunteerism" and "social contribution" would emerge, BUT you forgot the important other part:

2. post-scarcity As I and others have pointed out, it's really the technological utopianism of Star Trek's future, not its social environment, that allows its "moneyless society" at least some possibility

once again, even if you're right, and a chunk of society decides "screw volunteerism, I'm going to lay on the couch and eat flamin' hot cheetos and drink root beer," SO WHAT? It's a society of abundant resources. We have large people now who "live on the dole" in some way or another and it hasn't brought the market economy crashing down.

So some folks will reject volunteerism. This would not be the disaster that "ruins paradise" that you and others seem to think. Actually, many left-wing writers have taken into account in theorizing what a "utopian society" would look like, that some would reject it. And it's not really that big of a deal.
"why oh why didn't I take the blue pill?"
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