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Old April 24 2013, 09:47 PM   #457
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Brit wrote: View Post
teya wrote: View Post
You are also following those who argued that I'm obviously not a parent because I believe it immoral to kill to save a child, and those who argued that I am immoral because I wouldn't kill another to save my sweetie.

So, I've learned something truly frightening in this thread: there are actually fans on this board who believe that it is perfectly reasonable and moral to kill an innocent person to save someone you love.

That's totally mind-boggling.

ETA: Either that, or you're all simply running out of arguments to justify your belief that St Kathryn of Voyager never makes a mistake or never makes a difficult call that even she might not completely agree with.
No, what is completely mind boggling here is your lack of understanding the basis of this problem, so I will say it loud and clear. Tuvix is not the donor in this case he is the recipient, and according to US law upheld by the Supreme Court you cannot coerce someone into giving up a part of his body. You cannot even harvest organs from a corpse without permission. The autonomy of the individual's body extend past death even.

Tuvix is a thief and therefore isn't entitled to the possession or use of what he has stolen, no matter how he come by it. He was not a thief until that moment when he decided to keep what he found.

Apparently it is ok to dehumanize Tuvok and Neelix, in favor of Tuvix, that is hardly the argument anyway. The argument is who actually owns the property, and while that may seem unsavory to some of you, it is the only fact that can come into play. Bottom line, we are talking about properity. Tuvok and Neelix are entitled to their own bodies, in the same way Kes is entitled to her lung, so yes she could in certain circumstances ask for it back. She contracted to give that lung to Neelix not to Tuvix, and if you change the contract it becomes null and void.
This is the most convoluted logic I've heard in a long, long, long time.

By your reasoning, the folks who donated their son's organs to my sweetie and five other people, could have come back 2 years later and said, "oh, we've decided we don't like that hippie guy who got one of the kidneys, so we're going to take it back."

Sorry. Doesn't work that way.

And *you're* the one missing the entire basis of the episode.

Tuvix is neither a donor nor a recipient.

Tuvix is a sentient being who was created by a process of reproduction called symbiogenesis. He stole nothing. He had no culpability in his own creation. He was the product of 3 parents: Tuvok, Neelix & an alien orchid.

He was recognized by Captain Janeway as sentient. She assigned him to the bridge, so he was obviously competent. She praised him in her logs.

Under Federation law, sentient beings have rights: and the basis of those rights is the right to self-determination.

Contrary to your assertion, the Doctor is absolutely in the right.

Bottom line, we are talking about a living being, not property. And in saying that he is property, you are getting into an ethical morass that I don't think you want to be getting into...
Akoochimoya, my indigenous ass.
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