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Old April 23 2013, 10:24 PM   #179
Robert Comsol
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Location: USS Berlin
Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

aridas sofia wrote: View Post
I think the conclusion Joseph and Jein came to - independently - was that "MK IX/01 CONSTITUTION CLASS" referred to the class to which Enterprise belonged.
The "Mark" designation had its historic root in equipment for ships: in the early 20th Century for the artillery (sic) of US naval ships, by World War II for their radar instruments.

Considering that Jefferies (and others) were war veterans, there were no "Mark" designations for ships in the 1960's and the context in which the primary phaser schematic is presented (to tell the viewer what kind of phaser he is looking at, not what kind of ship), I'd say it's pretty clear that the "MK IX/01" designation refers to the primary (long range) phaser.

If there ever was yet another distinction for starships, it would be an alphabetic nomenclature ("J Class Starship" reference in "The Menagerie"). Interestingly, the Star Trek producers were - again - ahead of their time as the Soviet Navy had alphabetic class designations (like "K" and number for its submarines plus the individual sub's name. The name class designation was an invention of NATO)

And, again, the schematic reference is no evidence whatsover that the Enterprise belongs to the Constitution Class. Khan expressively said that he had "been reading up on starships" (i.e. more than one class). Since he is only interested in acquiring knowledge to take over the Enterprise, the logical conclusion is that he is reading up on designs on the road to the Enterprise, and apparently one of these is a "Constitution Starship Class".

aridas sofia wrote: View Post
Because only one slot precedes "1701" - 1700 - the deduction is that number belongs to Constitution.
Interestingly, Greg Jein admits at the end of his article that the low "complete" bar of the "1700" on the starship status display could also indicate a starship just being built!

Apparently Starfleet knew that this starship "1700" was of the 17th design but had not received a number, yet. As the purpose of the last digits is speculation it could also indicate that this new ship will still receive a Naval Contact Code which hasn't been determined, yet. This is compatible with the Enterprise's creator's intentions

When I first read the Matt Jefferies interview about the Enterprise being "the first bird", "the first in the series" my conditioning immediately wanted to place the Constitution before the Enterprise and then my inner voice took over: What the heck are you doing, isn't "first bird" clear beyond doubt?!?. YMMV, of course

aridas sofia wrote: View Post
No need for one to copy conclusions from the other. And since they were both basing their conclusions on something that had made it to the screen.
Considering Greg Jein's depth of research his conclusion was based on the actual primary phaser schematic (indiscernible to read on TV tubes, then, and HD screens, now!) which he had somehow acquired. In contrast, given the superficialty of Franz Joseph's research in contrast (e.g. Type II phaser blueprint, Commodore rank stripes etc.) I have severest doubts that he ever saw this exotic primary phaser schematic in the first place.

aridas sofia wrote: View Post
I wonder which people "that fully knew" you have in mind.
Mike Okuda. He knew Matt Jefferies.
Yes, but then Mike Okuda probably also knew that according to the second film, the time difference between "Space Seed" and "The Wrath of Khan" is 15 solar years and still this didn't reflect in his Chronology.

aridas sofia wrote: View Post
What I'd like to know is why go with Jein? Why not stick with the Jefferies scheme and just abandon the specific assignment of names to numbers that FJ had made? THAT is the mystery to me.
Now, that's something I'd be equally interested in to find out, maybe someone could just contact Mr. Okuda trying to find out "why"?
Especially, since for TOS-R there was no serious need to print numbers onto the Enterprise's sister ships which would have made more fans happy than taking the side of one faction.

Something that still needs an explanation is the TOS-R Intrepid's registry "NCC-1631". Commodore Stone looks up his starship status display to determine whether or not to give the repairs of the Enterprise priority over the ones of Intrepid - but in HD the registry of the Intrepid is no longer there as instead of a "1631" there is only an "1831"...

"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
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