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Old April 23 2013, 03:00 PM   #177
Robert Comsol
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

aridas sofia wrote: View Post
I have never understood how Greg Jein's "T-Negative" fanzine article gained the support it did from people that fully knew what Jefferies' numbering system was supposed to represent.
I wonder which people "that fully knew" you have in mind. Jefferies' decicisive original production sketch of the TOS Enterprise with 1701 being "the first in the series" of the "17th Cruiser Design" was (unfortunately) not illustrated in The Making of Star Trek, the first time I saw it was in the much later Star Trek Sketchbook followed by Jefferies' interviews where he stated the same.

One of the influential people that obviously took a liking in Jein's treatise was Bjo Trimble and adopted his starship numbers for the popular Star Trek Concordance which I think is the major reason plus the connection to Mike Okuda that Jein's numbers made it to TOS-R (of course, once Mr. Okuda became aware of the Star Trek Sketchbook and the Jefferies interviews he should have devoted proper consideration to the issue but that's a different story).

aridas sofia wrote: View Post
And importantly, in 1973 when the TM AND the T-Negative article appeared, as far as I know, of the two, only Franz Joseph had met and talked to Jefferies. It's no surprise then that the system he put together for his TM pretty closely follows Jefferies idea- that there were 17 starship designs that preceded Enterprise and that is what the "17" stood for. That's Jefferies, not Franz Joseph.
Sounds like a credible theory. But for some strange reason Joseph decided also to adopt Jein's theory that NCC-1700 should be the USS Constitution which does contradict the Jefferies statements according to which the "first bird" was USS Enterprise.
The decisive evidence is this odd "Mark IX" reference in the Technical Manual. Jein believed that the Mark IX designation in the "primary phaser" schematic instead referred to a type of starship (because he felt he needed the "01" of "MK IX/01" as evidence that it belonged to "1701"...).

Frankly, I can't believe that two separate people came up with the same ludicrous conclusion, which tells me that Franz Joseph took this information from Jein's treatise.

aridas sofia wrote: View Post
I am sure Mike Okuda knew this since he certainly had contact with Jefferies, but he apparently still decided to go another way. Franz Joseph was following Matt Jefferies' numbering idea, despite the differences in his blueprints.
In the beginning of his treatise (and before his "reverse numbering" cosmic influence pet theory took over) Greg Jein did excellent research work:
The Making of Star Trek said there were 12 starships like the Enterprise (class) which Jein compared with the starship status display in "Court Martial" with the "16" and "18" prefixes.
Thus he concluded (assuming only 12 starships in the entire Starfleet) that all those numbers had to belong to the 12 starship names listed in The Making of Star Trek.

By the time the decisive Jefferies production sketch became public, Jein's conclusions should have been re-examined (12 starships like the Enterprise / 17th design, XX starships like the Constitution / 16th design, X starships of the 18th design), but unfortunately Mr. Okuda didn't feel this to be necessary or simply didn't care.

Bob

P.S. Before the "Space Seed" screenplay excerpt is posted again (the one containing the scene where Khan is looking at schematics of a "Constitution Class Starship") here is the decisive dialogue:

KHAN: I've been reading up on starships, but they have one luxury not mentioned in the manuals.
MARLA: I don't understand.
KHAN: A beautiful woman. My name is Khan. Please sit and entertain me.

The dialogue is abundantly clear, that Khan has not only been studying manuals of the Enterprise but other starships / classes as well (including the Constitution Class)...
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