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Old April 23 2013, 03:52 AM   #74
Timewalker
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Re: When exactly did Marla McGivers die?

Timo wrote: View Post
Khan valued intelligence, strength, and endurance.
...All of which makes him a bigot already. Adding other characteristics like skin color, age or length to the pool doesn't really change his character an iota. It's not something we're required to do, but it's something we can do at our leisure if that's our wont.
It doesn't make him a bigot if he values those qualities. It would make him a bigot if he discriminated against others due to the usual criteria we're all aware of, and I'm sure that when he was on Earth Khan was bigoted against the non-genetically engineered populace of Earth. He would have treated those he considered inferior just like any bigoted individual does.

But to simply value and respect those qualities, per se, does not make one a bigot.

If he was a bigot in terms of physical appearance, how could he be such close friends with both Joaquin (from Space Seed) AND Joachim from the movie (they were NOT the same individuals!)?
Joaquin he'd tolerate because that was the way to get out of Earth alive. Joachim he'd obviously let live because he was the fully Aryan son he always hoped to have...

Note that the concept that Khan would prefer tall blondes is not something that's required to make sense of ST2. It's just a simple and rather well-working explanation as to how the marooned community would gravitate towards phenotype uniformity. Had Joaquin prevailed and Khan perished, only the children bred with curly "Middle Eastern" hair would have survived...
This is BS. A group of people that small would need every individual's work output to stay alive, regardless of skin tone, hair color, eye color, etc. Any intelligent leader would know that.

Although in terms of Hollywood approximations, all of Khan's fellow escapees (especially including Joaquin) would qualify as Aryan, except perhaps for the head honcho himself (who'd only be Aryan in the actual sense of the word). "Ethnic diversity" isn't something easily visible in this bunch of generic extras, no matter what the dialogue says.
Granted. But Khan is not responsible for the decisions of Hollywood casting directors.

Also, as pointed out above, Chekov wasn't navigator at the time.
Do we have any reason to think he would ever have held some other position aboard the ship in TOS?
Certainly. Think back to various episodes where Spock isn't available to run the library-computer station. Who takes over for him? Chekov.

It was established early in the series that many junior officers serve in several areas of the ship before settling into their "specialty." Sulu wasn't always a helmsman. Riley worked in Engineering before being promoted to Navigator. Uhura and Rand both know how to take the Navigator's station in an emergency. Chekov was obviously in training as some sort of information specialist, in addition to his navigation skills.

In "Catspaw", the officer's first appearance in stardate order, nothing explicit is said about Chekov being new to the ship; nor is such a thing mentioned anywhere else, so he could well have been aboard for years upon years before enough of those early Lieutenants retired from Navigation to let Chekov sit a few Alpha shifts in there, rather than his usual midnight ones. (Data's "normal" career advancement is probably anything but, and the poor machine doesn't realize it is being held back.. Certainly the heroes around him climb the rank ladder faster.)

Timo Saloniemi
Nonsense. In Catspaw, DeSalle keeps needling Chekov as being inexperienced and unsure of what he's doing. Chekov finally gets mad and says, "I'm not that green."

DeSalle wouldn't have said what he did if Chekov had been aboard for years.
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