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Old April 8 2013, 09:24 PM   #70
Danger Ace
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Re: Section 31 is a positive for the Federation (spoilers from TV & bo

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
I don't think it defeats the purpose since we know other organizations like the Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order function just fine.
Apples and oranges. Those organizations operate within a very different set of circumstances.


I think it morally corrupts the Federations "advertised" principles about freedom and enlightenment.
I disagree. Nothing in their "advertised principles" says they have to follow a "naive-yokel" doctrine in foreign policy.

Take that away and what makes the Fed and Star Fleet any different from The Romulan Star Empire, TOS Klingons, Cardassian Union, Breen or Dominion? Nothing.
Everything. Our side is our side. All we have been given in DS9 has been Section 31 working in defense of Starfleet in the face of an agressor who vowed to extinguish humanity. A threat such as that justifies everything in terms of defense (e.g. the genocidal virus unleashed on The Founders). Why do those other than the Federation or Starfleet have a superior claim to life, liberty and the pursuit of property or happiness?

The Fed is just as cut throat and ruthless as any of them and advanced technology and pursuit of enlighten like Roddenberry envision for his series completely disappears.
I think it's debatable as to whether GR's vision is as you claim it to be based on episodes of TOS and the TOS era films. Star Trek: TOS was a hawkish and "talk softly but carry a big stick" affair. It wasn't until The Next Generation that things went dovish and soft.

Unfortunately this ideal is impossible in practice but easy to preach and by extension completely subverts Roddenberry's utopian future.
Gene Roddenberry's "utopia" has never held up to close scrutiny as even he seemed to contradict himself with regards to its defined form (money versus no money, the existance of greed or of vanity, etc.). So you argue for an ideal that was never really given us in the televised or big screen adventures.

Now i think in the books Section 31
I'm sorry, I do not place any stock in the novels. I respect that you do however there is just too much unvetted and contradictory aspects to those works.

Kirk and Spock's actions in TOS "The Enterprise Incident" being under orders from the Federation
Justified by the actions seen in "The balance of terror." And the disavowal of Federation or ship's knowledge was meaningless.

TNG's "Pegasus" with the phasing cloak. Sanctioned by Star Fleet Command to be carried out by then Capt Pressman who was later promoted to Admiral.
Those experiments were illegal and as such exactly illustrates the necessity of why a Section 31 was needed.

Nothing in GR's vision required Starfleet/Federation to agree to not pursuing cloaking technology yet they wrote that in. That was a pervertion of the "vision." Why would any entity agree to a unilateral ban on pursuing a technology (if for no other reason then to devise a practical defense against it).

Again, a position they later were forced to abandon due to practical considerations which further legitimizes the reasons for the existance of a Section 31.
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