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Old April 7 2013, 03:49 AM   #119
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Re: Was Voyager designed by Sanford and Son?

sayonara maru wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post

Clearly Stellar Cartography on the scale that a Galaxy class vessel possesses it is not considered a priority for an Intrepid class ship, which has much less volume and is not designed for the same types of missions. Presumably if and when Starfleet feels that an Intrepid class ship should be sent on such a mission they outfit it accordingly.
My argument is.. that kind of judgement shouldnt be used regarding a "resource" like SC, tractor beam, holodecks or cargo bays on a vessel clearly classified as an exploration craft... which is like 80% of starfleet vessels. This wouldnt be appropriate for say the defiant (or that runabout wisecrack another poster mentioned)

Per Memory Alpha: "The Intrepid-class was designed for long-term exploration missions."
I'm going to have to take issue with that statement. It doesn't agree with my understanding of the Intrepid class's mission profile, and MA doesn't source the statement. In short, I find it dubious. In fact, the article itself is tagged for possible accuracy issues. If a source within the show can be located I'll be happy to reconsider.

As for tractor beams and cargo bays, they seem to be de facto on Starfleet vessels beyond the size of, say, a runabout. And heck, runabouts have tractor beams. I can see it being the case that least on the scale the Galaxy Class has too resource-intensive and too off-mission to merit inclusion on an average Intrepid class ship.

sayonara maru wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
I imagine an Arboretum is considered a "luxury" by Starfleet, and while it would be included on a Galaxy class ship which is essentially intended to be all things to all missions, it wouldn't be included on an Intrepid class vessel where it would be little more than a curiosity.
So I was trying to make a point that since Voyager was trapped on a long term exploration mission, it would be practical to have an Arboretum for the sake of growing food, having a picnic and in general making the ship feel less utilitarian and more like a long term home. Since Kes was allowed to make a hydroponics bay to meet some of those needs, it seems foolish for the writers not to expand it into a fully functional arboretum

No argument re the holodecks. Its established they are critical. These comments about "not needed for a ship of this class" and "limited space" are weak excuses. This is a fiction. Space and practicality is limited only by the writers imaginations

I very much thought I was doing so on various posts. Feel free to point out one that might be in error.

Perhaps "design and logistics" team is more appropriate?
In-universe: The crew apparently never felt an arboretum was necessary, as evidenced by the fact that they apparently never built one. Since we're not in their shoes, I don't think we're in a position to question their decision.

Out-of-universe: See below.

Also, you seem to be mixing in-universe and behind-the-scenes in ways which are only designed to support your points. "The writers decided not to expand it into an arboretum", for instance- I see three possible interpretations-

1) The crew decided not to make an arboretum. Well, perhaps they had a reason for it. We don't know as it was never discussed during the show.

2) The writers decided not to expand it. Perhaps they did but were overruled.

3) TPTB decided not to build an arboretum set. See below regarding money and available space and dramatic considerations, i.e. don't build a set if you don't have a good dramatic reason for one.

I'd appreciate it if you could be more clear as to the target of your criticism in future posts.

In any event, I've seen you say that Voyager should have had a Stellar Cartography department on the scale of a Galaxy class ship. I haven't seen you explain why beyond what you've provided above, which I've already addressed.

sayonara maru wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
I can and will tell you with a straight face (ironic considering I'm gay), that a holodeck adds more value than an arboretum.
My comment was more meant to point out that the crew.. (oh hell.. the damned writers again)... seem to have Chatau De Paris running 24/7 as their only means of recreation. And I think i mentioned earlier that since the design team found the hydro pon bay added value for a lost in space ship, the arboretum is a more reasonable decision
I don't think they had any program running 24/7 until Fair Haven, which issue in and of itself. As for the particular program you mention, it doesn't even appear in every season, though I'll admit an argument can be made that it was replaced with programs of perhaps similarly dubious virtue. But the thing is...with the information we have on screen, the crew -does- seem happy with what they have available to them. It's fine to say that if you'd been on the ship you would have wanted other things to do, but it appears that the people who were there were happy with what they had. Besides, the holodeck can be used to create an infinitude of different environments; it's highly unlikely we saw all of the ways in which various members of the crew utilized it.
Since we never saw the Voyager crew discuss the relative benefits of hydroponics versus an arboretum, we can't assume they never discussed it. As for behind-the-scenes, sets take up space and cost money and need to be justified. The hydroponics bay itself was a stretch logistically (did we ever see anything particular exciting occur there?); an arboretum would have been even moreso.

sayonara maru wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
I believe this has been brought up before, but I and I believe other posters would appreciate it if you included quoted text -before- your new material, to increase readability and as a courtesy. Thank you.
Apologies to all! I really wasnt paying attention. Im new here so I'll hope you'll forgive the oversight.. Will make sure to avoid this in the future..
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