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Old April 5 2013, 03:01 PM   #224
stj
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Re: Defending Admiral Cain from Battlestar Galactica(mentions Dick Che

randomfan86 wrote: View Post
With regard to Park, dude...though I was born here, both of my parents are from Korea. I go to Seoul on about once a year and keep in touch with some family there. Its an endorsement of Park. I'm honestly not familiar enough on the history of SK as to whether it was Park's action that directly resulted in the modernization, but I can tell you that he gets the credit with the population because it occurred over his nearly two decade watch. Even the head of the opposition who he almost murdered (instead imprisoned) gives him credit today.
Both the south and Japan received a lot of US Vietnam war spending and both economies accelerated their growth, which continued for a relatively long time (until the general East Asian economic crisis more or less.) Park's specific economic policies were indeed paralleled in Japan. There is no reason to think that Park's dictatorship had anything to do with this, especially US spending, which preceded him. This is true no matter what people supposedly think in the south about Park.

I'm sure that you are correct in saying that it has been conventional wisdom to attribute the economic growth to Park's crimes. What I've been trying to say is that this is an idea propagated by people who a political agenda better advanced by an authoritarian or dictatorial government, a con job perpetrated on the populace.

Further, and even more important, the vote for Park can be interpreted as endorsement for prosperity and economic growth, not for dictatorship. Or it can be interpreted as a deliberate choice for a dictatorship capable of attacking the north. As for the first, in a capitalist system, political figures, even dictators, cannot grow the economy, especial not with torture and terror. As for the second? I really doubt that this woman ran on an open platform of war, especially if that is her real agenda.

So hate all you want.
Everything you've said paints her in a terrible light, but not being Korean, I'm not so deeply invested I hate her, sorry.

Even if there's a democratic revolution in China, Deng is still going to be remembered as a great leader even with Tienanmen.
Is he? His system has recently come to the point where even the highest levels are engaged in conspiracy mongering and fake trials in the pursuit of personal power. The most likely culmination of his heritage is devastating civil war, with massive loss of life and submission of the country to foreign domination.

Thank you for your intellectual honesty about FDR and Lincoln. Though I suspect they'll continue to be lionized, and have their legacies endure.
To clarify, I think FDR's domestic reforms were genuine reforms and their reversal is social degeneration. I happen to dislike FDR for his de facto support for the fascists in Spain and Ethiopia, and for the postwar planning for US expansion worldwide, not just the interment. And although many, many people dislike Lincoln and the preservation of bourgeois democracy against the slave powers, I find it overall quite admirable. My personal favorite politician of the time is the Great Commoner, Thaddeus Stevens and I loved the movie partly because it included him. In assessing Lincoln, it is important to realize that in effect the US Civil War was a revolution, in which by definition it is impossible to adhere strictly to the letter of the law, in which "voting" is by arms as well as ballots.

I don't know that Argo beat out Lincoln for that reason. I thought Zero Dark Thirty was the best film by far, and it was seen that way by critics...but I suspect it was sunk by similar petty reasons you ascribe to those who voted for Argo. If people thought that was an endorsement of torture, I wonder what would've happened if Leon Panetta had a similar conversation with Maya that Adama had with Lee at the end of Razor.
That's my personal analysis of why Lincoln lost. I firmly beieve that in years to come, Lincoln is last year's movie that people will continue to watch with real interest, while interest in Argo will disappear whenever Iran drops from the official hate list du jour. I don't think there's any doubt that everyone in Hollywood knows that they were neglecting to award the Best Picture the title.

As to Zero Dark Thirty, its only concern with torture is the toll torturing people wreaks on the poor US victims of tragic necessity. I find this vile, a big lie motivated by bigotry.

With regard to Afghanistan, true that. I never made any such assertion personally.
No, you didn't. That's why the comment on Afghanistan was in a PS. The blatant historical revisionism (aka lying) about this just gets more and more annoying, so I couldn't help but comment.
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