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Old March 2 2013, 09:40 PM   #22
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Re: RDM interview in a military blog (in 4 parts)

Admiral2 wrote: View Post
Why would it be necessary to reveal they'd dropped the running storylines when it was patently obvious to anyone actually watching the show during season three??
Well, because they kept acting like there was one big grand plot that all fit together that we had to decode. Really, they had no idea where things were going. Had they just been moving forward - rival characters with different agendas, then see the results as they bounce off each other - that would sort of made more sense.

But they acted like there was a "Cylon Plan" - not just in the show but in all podcasts and interviews.

Otherwise, Admiral2, you give a strong counter-argument about Starfleet as a "military" organization. I still have strong reservations, but you raise points I cannot easily refute. But these are issues Trek fans have debated for decades, and I think it's beyond my capacity to defend it at length. Yes, Picard is a military commander and fans have deluded themselves about such things at times even though they have "court martials" and the like. Still, I think Starfleet isn't *just* a military organization: it isn't non-military, it has some military elements, but I think it's more than that, it also has scientific and diplomatic elements. But thank you for not just dismissing this out of hand, but articulating logical counter-points.

The Cylon Plan was to kill all the humans, they just screwed it up because Cavil had issues with the Final Five. He wanted them to be punished and wanted to draw out their punishment as long as possible, but then it was too late. It fits into one of the themes throughout the show that there really wasn't much of a difference between the humans and cylons. Cavil, despite wanting to be a machine, was just as petty and obsessed with revenge as the humans he hated. It isn't the show's fault that it didn't live up to some fans expectations. I don't know what you could have wanted it to be.
All you're doing is reciting that bad last-minute explanation that Season 4.5 tried to spoon-feed us.

The entire show acted like there was an actual "plan", some sort of purpose or deception, not "kill all humans". The writers settled for that when they had to admit they hadn't thought it out.

I was laughing at my TV when Cavil explained his Rube Goldberg-like plan for revenge; dumping the Final Five in human society so they could witness it's end.....and randomly deciding to put Tigh in years before the others, to explain why the character is older? Why not just all at once? It was a forced explanation of how they abandoned hints of just exactly when the Cylons started using sleeper agents.

Is "kill all humans" the worst plan ever? No, elegant in its simplicity. But you HONESTLY think that's what the podcasts, interviews, and opening credits were hinting at since season 1?

I don't know what you could have wanted it to be.
Honestly, I haven't thought about it....but I kind of half-hoped that the "Plan" was tied to the core Mythos of Earth: for large parts of the show, they kind of ignored the Earth subplot (Season 2.5 through 3.0 ). My hope would be that it would arise from an inherently logical question fans asked but they never answered: "doesn't Galactica realize that because the Cylons are always on their tail, they haven't outright thrown the Cylon fleet off their trail....that they're leading the Cylons right to Earth?" -- so from that, my hope is that the "Plan" was "destroy Galactica if possible, but if there is any truth to this Earth legend, wait for Galactica to lead us right to them."

Awesome Possum wrote: View Post
For all the people who complain about BSG, I can't find a single one who could have made it "better". They have nothing to complain about so they complain about nothing.
  • Starbuck shouldn't have been an Angel (they thought of that at the last minute; if they wanted to do that - lets face it other scifi shows have, Daniel Jackson style - they should have set it up far better).
  • Particularly, the entire "Final Five Cylons can be anyone" concept, breaking their past rules, was a massive character assassination of Tigh, Tyrol, and Anders (I may, may have accepted one, not all three). This should never have been done.
  • Making "Earth" the dead colony of the Thirteenth Tribe...who were actually Kobol's Cylons, was a great idea; it meshed with the core mythos of the show. I'd keep that.
  • The writers themselves would admit that they lost complete track of Apollo and Roslin in season 3, though admittedly they fixed them up surprisingly well in season 4. But even Ron admitted that Apollo/Dualla was a's just that instead of ending it, they tried desperately to salvage it for 30 episodes, long after they should have cut their losses.
  • I don't blame Ron for the network forcing him to make season 3 a season of bottle-episodes and drop the Sagittaron Storyarc -- I blame Ron for not being transparent with fans about just how much this was affecting the show at the time. It was Farscape season 4 all over again.
So "Starbuck as an Angel was poorly set up" (and probably should never have been done), "Head-Characters are angels, not chips" was poorly done and should have been better set up (their behavior is contradictory at times), and the Final Five should not have been done. Well, making the Final Five the "hidden Imperious Leader" of sorts would have been okay, which is sort of what they did, but the choice of Final Five was for shock value. That, and the Cylon Plan should have been "track humans to Earth to destroy it". Those are the big issues much of the rest stems from.

Harvey wrote: View Post
This probably won't fit your "from the beginning" definition, but in retrospect "Lay Down Your Burdens" and "The Eye of Jupiter" both suggest Tyrol is a Cylon.
Well, actually, you raise a good point with "LDYB", Harvey. Tyrol fears he might be a much as anyone else in the fleet does. But the same episode also did a flashforward with him having impregnated Cally, setting up the writers to have to break their own rules if they wanted to make Tyrol a Cylon.
"Its about the characters, stupid" - Ron D Moore
"What baloney. BSG was about the writers wanting to achieve a pre-determined end point, and they jerked the characters around so that they would achieve that goal." - Temis the Vorta

Last edited by Neroon; March 2 2013 at 11:31 PM.
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