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Old March 2 2013, 07:24 PM   #128
Locutus of Bored
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Re: Star Trek: INS- Son'a/Dominion Question

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Personally, I dislike it when entire (sometimes long) posts are quoted in their entirety, when the person responding is going to be commenting on only a certain passage.
Yes, but when it leaves out the portion relevant to the question you're asking, it just looks either kind of dumb, or like you're deliberately messing around.

FYI, I lack the ability to delete anything on this forum other than my own postings, all your posting exist in their original form where you first posted them.
See, now this seems like either you completely lack the ability to use context, or you're messing with me as well, since I know you have a decent grasp of the English language and can tell that I was referring to deleting the content from your post. It's things like this that make me question whether I even want to bother responding at all, or if I'm just wasting my time because it's going to be about playing games.

I'll give it a try, though.

And where did you address the point of your own posts that I questioned? When you say that Picard "was well within his rights to act on their behalf since they invited him to stay." The Baku never invited Picard to stay.
You don't think the joint Starfleet/Bak'u planning session where they were discussing the complete evacuation of their village and the use of transport inhibitors to cover their movements until they reached the transporter blocking mineral caves demonstrated their invitation to Picard and willingness to participate in the evacuation plan with the exception of them using weapons? Did these people give any prior indication that if Picard just waltzed in and ordered them to obey his commands they would do so unquestioningly? If they didn't want to evacuate under the protection of the Starfleet personnel, they wouldn't have evacuated. Assertiveness was not a quality they lacked.

You pointed out that "at no time was the possibility of establishing low tech rehabilitation facilities for Federation and other government's citizens on the planet raised in the film." I wondered why such facilities would have to be low tech. And I pointed out it wouldn't seem to be a requirement for the radiation to do it's work. You still haven't gone into the reasoning of the low tech.
Actually, yes, I did. I postulated that the Bak'u might be agreeable to the possibility of establishing rehabilitation centers on other parts of the planet if the people who settled there agreed to observe the spirit of their rules; relatively low tech (as compared to what can be found in the Federation - the Bak'u are not actually devoid of technology and machines despite what's implied in the film - I'm pretty sure that dam of theirs was a fairly complex mechanism, for example), disarmament, and preservation of the planetary environment. The technology level had nothing to do with preventing the metaphasic particles from working, it was about respecting the Bak'u philosophy if you wanted to live on their planet.

And despite your insistence otherwise, from what little information we know from the various series and the film, the Bak'u were the first settlers of the planet around 2065 (300 years before Insurrection). In 2154 we know the Klingons referred to the entire nebula area as Klach D'Kel Brakt, that there were at least two habitable planets there, and that Earth authorities had not yet named the region the Briar Patch, since Soong named it. In 2371 the Klingons defeated the Romulans in a battle there, but no indication of ownership of the area is given. One or both of the combatants could simply have been using the Briar Patch as an equalizer much the same way the Mutara Nebula was used in TWoK. We do know that by 2365 that the Briar Patch region fell within the territory of the Federation, but they were apparently not aware of the presence of the Bak'u until the Son'a informed them. None of that gives any indication of who officially claimed the metaphasic ringed planet first, so all we have to go on is that the Bak'u presence there 300 years earlier is the first known reference.

The movie did say at one point that for truly serious medical cases, the radiation would require multiple years to have the desired effect. Some people wouldn't be simply visiting the planet, they would be basically moving there. They might be required to be in a hospital on the planet when they first arrive, could need that hospital for months or years. Taking people in serious physical need, and just dumping them into a one of thousands of rustic villages scattered on the surface (even with the radiation) would be a death sentence.

Also, of the people seeking the benefits of the rings, while some might prefer it, not all are going to want to live in a low tech community. So why the low tech?
I didn't say anything about dumping terminal or severely ill patients in a rustic cabin without ANY technology and leaving them to fend for themselves, I said the Bak'u would probably be fine with people living there as long as they maintained a relatively low tech lifestyle that didn't overrun the planet with technology, people, and weapons. IE, no giant spaceports, planetary defenses, urban sprawl, severe pollution, massive tapping of energy resources, etc. Rehabilitation facilities with modern Federation medical equipment would probably be fine, however. I also addressed the part about how not everyone is going to want to give up their Federation creature comforts even to live a healthier lifestyle, so that would serve as a check on population overcrowding. But that's all just speculation.

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
At no time was the possibility of establishing low tech rehabilitation facilities for Federation and other government's citizens on the planet raised in the film, so you don't know if they might have been okay with that, especially given how little of the planet their society occupied. Just because they weren't okay with destroying their planet's ecosystem, being forcibly relocated, and being relegated to earlier deaths doesn't mean they weren't open to other, less invasive options. They were perfectly welcoming to Picard and crew even after they beamed down with phasers and after a firefight broke out in their secretly spied upon village earlier. Their only stipulation was that the Starfleet personnel disarm themselves. They would have had every right to be hostile in that situation but weren't, so they might have been open to the possibility of allowing elderly or sick Federation citizens to rehab on their world as long as they preserved the planetary environment, disarmed themselves, and lived a simple lifestyle without overrunning the planet with technology and people.

Given the rise of various return to nature/manual labor and New Essentialist groups in the Federation, I suspect many would gladly move there and live the Bak'u lifestyle elsewhere on the planet, while the rules would also serve as a natural population control since not everyone would want to give up their futuristic creature comforts even for the promise of a long, healthy life. People with illnesses or severe injuries could stay there temporarily until they healed or permanently if it's a chronic condition that would return once they left.
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