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Old February 28 2013, 03:13 PM   #411
yousirname
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

UFO wrote: View Post
Your claim contradicted Kirk's behaviour and my second sentence is what the vast majority of unbiasied viewers would obviously agree with.
It doesn't 'contradict' his behaviour. And you can no more know what 'the vast majority of unbiased viewers would agree with' than you can know that Kirk believes Nero has no weapons. I can't stop you from claiming to know things you obviously don't know, but I don't have to take it seriously, either.

In narrative terms, the reason Nero doesn't fire any weapons is that our heroes have already pulled off their elaborate and daring plan. Having Nero continue to fire after that would undermine the impact of that sequence. But Kirk isn't some genre-savvy self-aware parody. He's given no information on Nero's weapons status.

Of course even the above is a red herring from my point of view as I donít see any way that another person's state of mind gives someone else a right to unilaterally decide if they die or not.
The decision isn't unilateral. Nero was specifically consulted and, of the two options available to him, he chose death. Perhaps he prefers 'death by black hole' to 'death by photon torpedo'. But from the brief footage we see of him after the firing, it's hard to say he seems any more upset than he would otherwise have been.


Even on purely practical grounds, your criteria takes no account of Nero's possible mental illness etc, for a start.
If Nero isn't responsible for his decisions then there is no value in consulting him at all. All the possibility of mental illness does is remove any issue of consulting Nero; the rest of the situation remains unchanged.

By the way, as a matter of interest, would Kirk have to hold fire if there actually had been a Romulan in a position to help Nero and Nero was willing to accept it? Sounds like you are saying he would. But that woudl open up its own can of worms (which I have no desire to get into!).
Yes, obviously he would. In practice he would need to make it clear to any rescuer that Nero is wanted for genocide and must be detained and handed over to the Federation.

I may not be following your meaning here but at the risk of injecting my own values, I would not agree it leaves Kirk ethically compelled to do anything. But it would provide a defendable reason for doing what actually happened. Of course the traditional Star Trek plot would have them thwarting the bad guy at the last moment and at least not gunning Nero down in cold blood.
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. If Kirk's entire crew is endangered by Kirk not pulling the trigger and if fewer people will die if he pulls the trigger than if he doesn't, then Kirk is compelled to pull the trigger. That's all I'm saying.

I can see that in terms of general philosophy, but I was thinking more of this specific situation. That, I suspect, they may have difficulty with.
I'm sure some would disagree, but I'm certain that many wouldn't.
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