Thread: Section 31...
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Old February 20 2013, 01:18 PM   #146
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Re: Section 31...

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
What's the diff between a virus and a fleet?
The main difference is, the fleet was for the most part was killing the Founder's slaves, the Vorta and the JemHadar.

The virus was aimed at the decision making body of the Dominion.

Sci wrote: View Post
Dale Sams wrote: View Post
But the president at least has to deal with any potential consequences of it.
Given how little we know about the structure of the Federation govenance, the Presidents could conceivable have no worries of "potential consequences" for any of their action. There has never been a Federation President pull out of power and/or punished, or threaten with such, on the show.

And what about other Founder children?
What other Founder children? Seriously Sci, what other children?

How do we know Section 31 has never tried to blackmail or otherwise control or influence the Federation government?
When did we see this on screen? That's how we know.

If they were going to do all these dastardly things [snip] they've had two centuries. Where are the excesses against the Federation as a whole
The question is not, "Are they going to?"
No Sci, that wasn't the question. The question was, where is the evidence that this is in their history or present?

However, could at some point in the future S31 completely change into a different assemblage, with entirely different mission statement? Well, then it wouldn't be the S31 seen in DS9, would it? It would no longer be a secret organization dedicated to the preservation of the Federation by whatever mean they deem necessary.

Even if they use the same name.

So no, the S31 that we see on screen isn't a future threat to the Federation.

Are you seriously going to argue that Founder infants are magically born knowing everything and bearing the same responsibility as moral agents as any adult?
I'm saying that the offspring (if any) is "magically" aware of the knowledge in the link, when they've been fully exposed to it and they at that time are a part of the decision making body that is the link. It's implied that Odo never was joined in the link before being cast into the cosmos.

The idea that the individual 's action could (and should) only be undertaken by a government employee is again insane.
No one has said this.
Actually Sci quite a few people have said this. One of the objection in this thread to S31 is that they are apparently not under the "control and oversight" of the Federation governance. When I posed the hypothetical of S31 being under the Federation's control, you remove your objection to their existence. Even if it were the same people, undertaking the same actions, S31 became somehow legitimate (you continued to object to certain operations).

if it is answerable to the Federation Council, its institutional existence is legitimate. We can therefore trust that its first loyalty is to the Federation and not to itself.
No, in that scenario it's first loyalty would be to the Federation government, but not necessarily to "The Federation." Although it could be both.

There no reason S31 can not be completely loyal to the Federation as a whole, to the very idea of the Federation, without being directly loyal to (or under the control of ) the governing body of the Federation.

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