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Old February 20 2013, 03:24 AM   #330
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

yousirname wrote: View Post
"Fire everything" was aimed at the jellyfish, before Enterprise's arrival. They fire about a dozen torpedoes, no energy weapons. I don't see any reason to assume they had no weapon capacity. (ETA by this I mean that "Fire everything" can easily be read as "Full spread, maximum yield" rather than "Empty the phaser banks and torpedo bays completely!")
It could, but as I mentioned: "Nero's previous
successful missile attack had punched right through the Enterprise's shields. Had Nero had anything left to hurt Kirk with, however feeble, I'm sure he would have used it. So we are left with a completely defenceless Narada." He never did fire anything so we can be sure he didn't have anything left. You seem to have missed that point.

As for offering help, as I said, they're compelled to provide it if Nero is prepared to accept it. They can hardly just guess that he isn't.
But you also wrote:

yousirname wrote: View Post
Beaming off other Romulans who may not share Nero's appetite for destruction - well, they'd have to drop their shields, wouldn't they? Sounds risky.
However you are now saying they have to offer help no matter how risky it might be? What is wrong with saying it too damned risky for a number of reasons (blackholes included), lets just high tail it? Remember nuKirk didn't offer help because he was he compelled or obliged to. He did it for political reasons only (another issue I have with nuKirk).

yousirname wrote: View Post
Do I? So you are saying that, as a principle, if someone's death is inevitable, it should be ethically OK to kill them, irrespective of that person's ethical status? I would caution you to think about that before answering.
All our deaths are inevitable.
Exactly, so how much time is it OK to take from someone? A minute, an hour a lifetime?

You're ignoring the stipulation that the person is actively indifferent to their impending death.
There is no such stipulation. Nero didn't want Kirk's help, but would have probably been happy to accept assistence from a Romulan vessel, had one be handy. In any event, he never said he wanted to die, nor did he imply that he didn't care if he died.

SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
How about this. Kirk wasn't cruel for firing on Nero's ship, he was merciful.
Instead of leaving the Romulans to be shredded to pieces or crushed to pulp by the black hole's gravity force, he gave them a clean, quick death.
I was wondering how long it would take for someone to suggest that.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Saul wrote: View Post
A clean death by shooting the shit out of them. What a kind guy.
He executed six billion men, women and children. I have no problem with Kirk giving him a parting shot.
And that is a good reason why Star Trek should continue to have a problem with it (in my opinion), as it always (previously) has, as far as I can tell. Only the scale is different. Note, I am not saying Nero couldn't come to a sticky end, just do it right, if that's what's required.

Saul wrote: View Post
... But this way is kinda played for laughs.

Kirk: We show them compassion-- it may be the only way to earn peace with Romulus. It's logic, Spock! I thought you'd like that.
SPOCK No, not really, not this time.
NERO I would rather suffer the death of Romulus a thousand times than accept assistance from you.
KIRK You got it. Lock phasers! Fire everything we've got!
A good point and what exactly had Kirk done to offend Nero?
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