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Old February 12 2013, 12:06 AM   #164
Lieutenant Commander
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

Today in the remaining kibbutz, there are now differences in pay based on the work individuals do. Privatization of various services, including medical and education. Transfer of commonly held kibbutz property into the ownership of individual kibbutz members.

Traditional kibbutz simply could not compete with the non-kibbutz world. They start to bleed their best people. They only work (as I said) in semi-isolation.
Today about a quarter of the nearly 300 kibbutzim are still communal/traditional (i.e. moneyless). Others have become privatized and have equal pay for all and others have wage differentials. So there's choice. Collectively the kibbutzim contribute to almost a tenth of the Israeli economy today. There was a recent documentary on it called Inventing our life: The Kibbutz Experiment.

The anarchist's systems in Spain were short lived, it's impossible to know if they would have work over a protracted period of time.

It doesn't make any difference how good and equitable a system sounds, if in the end it simply doesn't work.
Have you seen The Take by Naomi Klein and Avi Lewis?

Workers' Self-Management has been going on in Argentina since IMF crashed their economy in 2002. In so many respects very similiar to the Self-Management practiced in Spain seen here:

The main difference is that it wasn't forcibly destroyed and continues today. In fact, Argentina represents history's most successful attempt at Workers' Self-Management.

This movement has been violently suppressed not only in Spain, but in Germany under the Weimar Republic, in Italy with the suppression of the Fiat workers and France & Algeria during the 1960s. Even the Wobblies (aka IWW) in the U.S. wanted to establish this. "Give the worker the full product of his labor and his pension is assured." -- 'Big Bill' Haywood (IWW speaker).

So Argentina is a hopeful portent for the future workers (aka productive class).

Viewing the multi-decade results of the "worker's paradises" of Communist Russia and China, I find the capitalistic system far superior (but not perfect), thank you.

Don't believe me? Breath the air in any western capital city, then travel to the Chinese capital city today and do the same without a filter mask. There's your true "ecological catastrophe."
Again, it's already known that niether the USSR nor Red China were socialists societies. They were State Capitalists and were tremendous failures. Remember Lenin re-introduced capitalism to Russia in the early twenties with his NEP. Even Orwell had his own to say on the subject:

"In every country in the world a huge tribe of party-hacks and sleek little professors are busy 'proving' that Socialism means no more than a planned state-capitalism with the grab-motive left intact. But fortunately there also exists a vision of Socialism quite different from this." George Orwell -- Homage to Catalonia (.104)

Orwell also had this to say:

"As far as my purely personal preferences went I would have liked to join the Anarchists." George Orwell -- Homage to Catalonia (.116)

"If I had understood the situation a bit better I should probably have joined the Anarchists." George Orwell - The Collected Essays; Volume 1 (.289)

"Up here in Aragon one was among tens of thousands of people, mainly though not entirely of working-class origin, all living at the same level and mingling on terms of equality. In theory it was perfect equality, and even in practice it was not far from it." George Orwell - Homage to Catalonia (.104)

The quality of life for workers (the productive class) seems to improve both economically and socially under self-management.

And let's not forget the continuing impact anarchism still has even for the American productive class:

"Around the turn of the century, the Wobblies and other anarchists played the central role in winning the workers the 5-day week and 8-hour day." David Graeber - Fragments of an Anarchist Anthropology. I doubt anyone here wants to return to the 12-hour workday, 6-day work week. BTW, Graeber helped co-found the Occupy movement which lead to such projects as Occupy Sandy, Occupy Foreclosures and the Rolling Jubilee thus showing anarchisms continuing influence.

Is the Star Trek federation itself anarchists? Well, it does show many of the same ideals; a free and equal society where the means of production are in the hands of the citizen rather than the state or capital. I think Roddenberry was a progressive humanist which like anarchism traces its origins to the enlightenment and the Age of Reason.

Iain Banks' "Culture" series bears similarities to the Federation (i.e. a space faring, moneyless society). And Banks does identify his "Culture" society as an anarchistic society. (See paragraph 8)

"Essentially, the contention is that our currently dominant power systems cannot long survive in space; beyond a certain technological level a degree of anarchy is arguably inevitable and anyway preferable." Iain Banks -- A Few Notes on the Culture.
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