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Old February 6 2013, 11:15 PM   #620
Reverend
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

Jan wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
If you remember back to the crazy episode where the Human VCR was recording Talia's reactions on a crystal for Kosh (When she examining the Kille's mind), and Kosh said "For Later" (or something close to that), the intention was to use that crystal to "fix" Talia, but, this is one of the very few plot points that got dropped in Babylon 5, since real world actress wanted to be "The Star" or to be released.
KOSH
Reflection, surprise, terror. For the future.
I've never been sure about that 'fix' part at all. None of the images that Talia flashed on were at all positive. I've always wondered if it might not have been intended as a weapon instead. I'd hoped that JMS would clarify it in the script book intro for this episode but it didn't come up.

Jan
Yeah, all I've ever been able to discern is that Kosh probably made the recording because he knew about Control. I've never been able to substantiate claims that the intent was to "fix" her later. It may be a logical surmise (especially in hindsight), but as far as I can tell it's just fan speculation.

My personal take is that he was somehow mapping out the extent of her reprogramming so he'd be in a better position to go after the sleeper personality in the future, if it ever became a threat.

What's always bothered me is that they went and brought up Talia's encounter with Abbut and yet I don't think it's never mentioned what--if anything--Garibaldi got out of Kosh. Perhaps it was a trap-door within a trap-door, just in case Talia every needed to be brought back after all?
hyzmarca wrote: View Post
Hypothetically, yes. The problem with the Psi-Corps is that it was created to brutally oppress telepaths because people hated and feared them but the releaties of psychic combat mean that all of its agents must be telepaths. You can see how this is problematic.

EarthGov's intent was that the Psicops would be their equivalent of the Jewish kapos and Ghetto Police in Nazi Germany, collaborators who fuck over and murder their own people in exchange for preferential treatment.

What actually happened is that the Psi Corps became a nation unto itself, with it's own unique culture, technically under the authority of EarthGov but in reality separate from Earth culture and with no real loyalty to mundane humanity.

The law that Telepaths have to take drugs that fuck them over and lead or suicide, join the Psi-Corps, or go to prison forever was passed by EarthGov, not the Psi-Corps. In human space, Telepaths aren't even second class citizens. Their status is somewhere between that of blacks in apartheid South Africa and Jews in Nazi Germany. Those who refuse to bow to the system are either imprisoned for life or just murdered and the mundanes really don't give a shit because they're scared of the telepaths. It's like being a mutant in Marvel only worse.

People like Bester are acting wildly outside the law to create what they believe to be a better world for telepaths. That requires doing some shady and unethical stuff, but they genuinely believe that the goal of freeing telepaths from mundane oppression (and oppressing mundanes in turn) is totally worth the cost.
In that way, the Psi-Corps and the telepath Underground Railroad are very similar. The difference is that the Psi-Corps wants to take over the system from within while the Underground Railroad just wants to get away from it.
Not quite right. Psi Corps came into existence as much to protect telepaths from mundanes as the other way around. When teeps were first discovered there was a wave of mass panic, lynchings and witch hunts brought on by the paranoia that "anyone" could secretly be a telepath. There was also a number of crimes committed by telepaths since, after all, telepaths are ultimately just people from all walks of life.

Of course it's never that simple and you really have to read all the Psi Corps novels to get exactly what's going on, the history of how things came to be. How the organisation has changed hands over the last century and how each Director has used to corps to advance their own personal agenda, usually co-opting and re-purposing the projects started by their predecessors.

In a nutshell though, there's more than one faction working within Psi Corps. One the one hand you have Bester's faction who represent the "old guard" within the Corps who are (in the short term) mostly concerned with protecting telepaths from the mundanes and (in the long term) securing dominance over said inferior masses.

The other faction is the one actually behind some of the nastier stuff we've seen and are mostly interested into using telepaths as tools and weapons with the intent to advance humanity over the other races. They're aligned with certain parties (mostly non-teeps) within EarthGov, Earthforce, at least one mega-corporation and another party that I shan't name.

Neither side are what you'd call "the good guys" or even "the bad guys". They're just two factions, each with their own agendas and equally valid reasons.

Ultimately, from the outside, the Psi Corps is a way to make telepaths appear non-threatening. This is good for the government since it promotes stability and keeps a potential resource at their disposal (in theory) and it's "good" for telepaths because it gives them a place where they can be themselves among others like them (again, in theory...)

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
The Long, Twilight Struggle - I really liked this episode. The centauri are very vicious. The fact that they used Mass Drivers, an outlawed weapon, seems like a dangerous decision. We learn that the humans, Minbari and Vorlons protest them using it. You'd think thast the Centauri aren't so overconfident that they'd want to risk making those three species angry. Fighting humans/Minbari would probably be different than fighting Narn. Its interesting to see how Londo has been reacting to events. It seems to have gone farther than he ever thought it would. Draal reappearing was interesting, although he was annoyingly melodramatic at times. The Shadows just demolished the Narn, and even prevented them from jumping away. They would (and most likely will) be dangerous opponents for the othert races. Londo watching the attack on the narn homeworld was a very good scene. The centari's terms were bad, probably worse than I thought they'd be (and arresting the leadership for "war crimes", when the centauri were the ones that used banned weapons, was a cheap shot). The scene in the council chambers at the end was very powerful, especially G'Kar's speech at the end. I'm glad G'Kar is getting Sanctuary. Overall, this was an amazing episode. There were great character moments, very memorable scenes, and an overall plot that was very good.
Easily one of the best and most memorable episodes of the whole show...and yet the best is yet to come.

Regarding the use of mass drivers; while it is a dangerous move, it's tempered by the knowledge that none of the other races are likely to do anything about it beyond official protests and maybe some trade sanctions. Neither Earth nor Minbar are in any kind of mood for another war. Not counting the Vorlons, the Minbari are the only ones that have the technology to go toe-to-toe with the Centauri. Don't let the silly haircuts fool you, they have some serious hardware on their side and are very practiced at conquest.

Politically; the Minbari have always essentially been isolationists. They did nothing while the Dilgar rampaged through the Non-Alligned worlds, conquering, enslaving and committing all kinds of atrocities, up-to and including genocide--to say nothing of the last time the Centauri decided to expand their Empire. Indeed, they only went after Earth in retaliation to what they considered an unprovoked attack.

Also the Narn Regime hasn't exactly made a lot of friends over the years. Yes they supplied Earth with advanced weapons during the Minbari War, but that was hardly altruistic and since then they haven't hesitated to take any opportunity for their own advantage. Bottom line, although all civilized worlds may cry out in outrage over such a flagrant treaty violation, none of them are about to stick their necks out for the sake of the Narn, even if they were in a position to do so.

It'd be like if China nuked Iran. There'd be a lot of harsh words and sanctions from the U.N., some sabre rattling and posturing from Russia, the U.S. and the other NATO countries, but I doubt anyone would be willing to invade Beijing over it.

Last edited by Reverend; February 6 2013 at 11:40 PM.
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