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Old January 29 2013, 05:14 AM   #47
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: Dilithium Crystals and Nuclear Fusion - A Star Trek Reunion Story?

Timo wrote: View Post
@Blssdwlf:

The crystals were fully re-amped before Lazarus 1 stole the first pair.
Which crystals? Not the whole lot, necessarily.

After Masters confirms that her underling has re-amped "the" crystals, they go for coffee. Kirk wanted "immediate" re-amplification, and Masters doesn't even report to the bridge when finished? This would make sense in three sets of circumstances:
Actually, you overlooked the simplest circumstance (and it is for all the crystals):

They were re-amped in-place in the energizer that also provides power to the ship.

Timo wrote: View Post
I don't see any difference between "drained crystals" and these never been used before crystals. They still would be starting at a zero or low charge.
Why? Why can't crystals be "born" at high energization level? Supposedly, these things can be spotted across significant distances, sort of suggesting they are very energetic in their natural state. Only weird anomalies or lots of hard use will reduce the natural level of energization and require a remedy.
Just because they can be spotted a far distance away doesn't mean they're energetic. The viridium patch Kirk wore in TUC didn't set off any high energy alarms and that was detectable up to 2 sectors away. The crystals from the necklace didn't show up on Spock's sensors until they were on the bridge, at close range.


Timo wrote: View Post
Nothing particularly fundamental about that. It's just like an electric appliance today that can work with a fuze in place, or with a piece of thinfoil, and doesn't have the wits to tell the difference, vs. a more refined appliance that demands a proper fuze or the advanced automation makes it sulk and refuse to work.
Not quite. TNG dilithium is akin to having the control rods for a nuclear reactor which is critical to it's operation while TOS is like having steam generators attached to the side of the reactor.


Timo wrote: View Post
The crystals are off to the side on top of the energizer that happens to be bypassed and therefore not part of the matter-antimatter chain at all.
Or then this is no different from the crystals being atop the cylinders on Scotty's control room floor - until physically moved by the system into the very heart of the reactor.
Having them physically in the very heart of the reactor in TNG and dozens of feet away from the reactor in TOS makes their operation pretty different and in a very obvious way.

Timo wrote: View Post
As for FTL vs. STL arguments, both the TOS pilot and "Balance of Terror" offer evidence and counterevidence in the same package. Scotty's claim that the Romulans had "simple impulse power" must be reconciled with the ship outrunning the hero ship at warp three, and covering distances on the map only slightly more slowly than the dot that marked the progress of the hero ship at maximum warp.
Uhm, when does the Romulan ship outrun the Enterprise in "BOT"?

As to the movement of the ships. If you watch the episode you'll find that
1. the Enterprise in the space of 10 minutes (accounting for stated dialogue ETA) covers 9 squares (looking at a flat plane, not accounting for the vertical axis).
2. the Romulan ship will cover 1 square in 1 hour (according to dialogue) since we know the trajectory is relatively flat from Outpost 4 to the Neutral Zone. Remember the dialogue heading: 111 Mk 14.

The Enterprise in this case is a bit faster than the Romulan ship. But only by a factor of at least 54 to 1.

But how big is a square?

Here's a range of possibilities based on the possible speed of the Romulan ship stuck at Slower-Than-Light speed:

Romulan Speed: 0.2c
Enterprise Max Speed: > 10.8c
1 Square / Neutral Zone depth = ~1.4 AU
Romulus to Romii = ~1.4 AU

Romulan Speed: 0.9c
Enterprise Max Speed: > 48.6c
1 Square / Neutral Zone depth = ~6.5 AU
Romulus to Romii = ~6.5 AU

On the other hand, we can measure a square by the Enterprise's sensor radius which is almost 2 squares on the map when Spock scans Outpost 2 and then Outpost 3.

We do know from "The Enterprise Incident" she can scan out to 1 parsec (3.27 LY).

That could put an upper size of a square to:
1 Square / Neutral Zone depth = ~1.64 LY
Romulus to Romii = ~1.64 LY
Romulan impulse = ~ 14,300c
Enterprise Max Speed = > 772,000c which coincidentally is the same as the Enterprise's speed in "That Which Survives" where she's at Warp 8.4 with a speed of 765,000c.

I'd imagine each square to be somewhere between those two extremes.

Timo wrote: View Post
OTOH, no witnessed movement in "Where No Man" explicitly takes place at FTL speeds, save for Kirk's arrival at the barrier ("Neutralize warp!") and his sally into it ("Ahead warp factor one!"), leaving us speculating about all the rest.

However, I consider "the time to reach a base went from "days away were now years in the distance" but not decades or more" to be very weak evidence. Surely decades are still years, just a few more of them? OTOH, certainly TOS often depicted star-to-star journeys in the timescale of days, whereas star-to-star distances could well be in the order of 5-10 ly rather than 10+.
Remember in TOS a star-to-star journey of days can easily cover 1,000s of light years as seen in "Obsession" and "That Which Survives". And if Kirk meant decades or "outside our own lifetime" he would've mentioned it.


As to the "Atomic Matter Pile" that can mean either a Nuclear Fission or Nuclear Fusion Reactor. Since fusion power supposedly took root quickly according to TVH then it is likely that pile refers to a fusion reactor.

Also, the phrase "Raw Antimatter Pile" was used in "Journey to Babel" which I'd imagine was either an antimatter reactor or antimatter container.

And the quote from TMOST... How is that accurate when we've seen the impulse engines cruise for 59 days in "The Paradise Syndrome" and when pushed hard evading the planet killer in "The Doomsday Machine" barely make it 7 or 8 hours? And there are also the two times they've lost the main engines, "WHMHGB" and "Mudd's Women" the impulse engines get them to their destination in less than two days but they don't have enough fuel to blast out of orbit. I think the actual impulse engines are a bit more complicated than TMOST describes them. I think the faster they go the more fuel they use up. Cruise around at a low STL speed, it could last months or more. Accelerate up to FTL and you'll use it up in days but you could travel to a planet within 40-80 LY.

Last edited by blssdwlf; January 29 2013 at 05:38 AM.
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