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Old January 23 2013, 03:56 PM   #587
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Re: Farscape or Babylon 5?

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Just to be clear, most of the summaries I read are the ones in the Episode guide that comes with the DVD, and I really haven't been spoilered yet, it just gives the basic summary of the episode.
The key word there is "yet". You keep it up and you *will* be spoiled. Late in season two the arc episodes kick into gear in a big way and hardly lets up until the end of season 4. By now you should be able to just trust the show. I'm sure there will be episodes you won't enjoy--I could probably even name them--but it's best you just take the show as it comes.

Honestly, I think you spoilt Farscape for yourself by doing this and I'd hate to see you do it again with B5.

I will say that, for a race that started the war with earth, the Minbari have an annoying tendency to act like they're always the victims and humans are scum.
Remember that from the perspective of the average Minbari, the war started because their leader (who was *very* highly regarded) was killed when a human ship attacked without provocation.

Also, remember that the Grey Council didn't tell their own people their reason for surrendering. That coupled with the fact that they were a few hours from making humans an endangered species is bound to lead to a lot of deep resentment.

I kind of get why the Minbari hate Sheridan, but it doesn't make that much sense. He killed Minbari in wartime, using a tactic they didn't like. He did what any soldier trying to defeat the enemy would do. I bet Sinclair would have used mines like that if he had the chance. But, because he killed Minbari in a way they didn't like, he's a killer He used the tools at his disposal to defeat a military target. Honestly, I think the fact that he scored one of the only big vistories is the reason they hate him, not because of his tactics (which weren't unusual military tactics to begin with, mines have been used for a long time, and space mines make sense). Maybe I misunderstand what happened, but I don't think I do.
It makes sense to the Minbari, which is all the really matters. Really it's more of a warrior caste thing, but basically the way they see it, their very best was taken out by a crippled primitive using dishonourable tactics.

Basically it boils down to him offending their warrior pride and making them look bad. It's messed up, but it's totally plausible from a cultural perspective.

I thought that the whole "Minbari do not lie" thing being a lie itself was funny. As soon as they said that, I thought of Vulcans not lying (which means mostly white lies, they obviously lie when they think its logical to) and Spock making a comment about when he lies by calling it an error/omission/etc. Never lying ever about anything doesn't really make sense, and of course its not true that Minbari don't lie, even if its apparently a death sentence for someone who accuses a Minbari of lying
Minbari honour again. It's not that they're incapable of lying (clearly they are) it's that outright deceit is very much taboo. Lennier's get out clause comes from the idea in Minbari culture that there's nothing greater or more noble than to serve others, or to sacrifice oneself for another. By lying to Sinclair, Lennier saved Londo from embarrassment and save face. To a Minbari, social embarrassment and public shame is about the worse thing that can happen to a person. So by sacrificing his own honour by lying and saving Londo from humiliation, Lennier was able to retain honour.

If you think that's stupid, then go ask a sociologist and I'm sure they'd be able to cite *thousands* of comparable examples in human cultures the world over, past and present.

Earth siding against Sheridan is just another example of why I want some alien to blow up the Government. They basically treat Sheridan and other military people like dirt, turning on them/messing with them for stupid reasons with no hesitation.
They're politicians. It's what they do. Besides, I think avoiding another war with the Minbari is far from a stupid reason for throwing Sheridan to the wolves. The Minbari already proved that if they had a mind to, they could wipe out the Earth Alliance without hardly breaking a sweat.

Kosh bringing Sheridan to a bunch of mysterious chanting people didn't surprise me at this point. More mytery from the mysterious alien.

The gift shop stuff was funny. I especially liked Londo, and his complaints about his action figure. I did wonder if some of those toys were actualy B5 products. The bear at the end was awesome. The moments with Londo and his aide were also done very well.
Back when the show was on, there was surprisingly little B5 merchandise. I think JMS just didn't like the idea of it and his views were essentially expressed by Ivanova in this episode.
Personally I thought the "Deep Space Francise" shot at Trek was pretty funny, if a little cheep.
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