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Old January 18 2013, 06:44 AM   #14
t_smitts
Commander
 
Re: Federation members or not? (Canon sources only, please)

Christopher wrote: View Post
t_smitts wrote: View Post
The only think that damn hard to explain is them being members as far back as the late 23rd Century, if not further, and it being such a shock in "The Host" that Trills are joined with symbionts. (Then again, considering DS9 basically ignored everything about that episode except for that basic premise, maybe we should too).
We've seen UFP members keeping customs and facts about their culture from the Federation before; for instance, the Ardanans' system of apartheid with the Stratos elite keeping the Troglytes oppressed, something that would probably have precluded membership if it had been known. (I always figured the UFP was willing to rush Ardana's membership without looking too closely because they wanted its zienite badly.) The Federation is a looser union than something like the USA or even the European Union, simply because the worlds are so far apart. Internal matters are generally kept internal.


Risa:
This one's a bit trickier. The whole storyline of "Let He Who is Without Sin..." seems to put Risa as a member, but it's hard to reconcile that with Picard seemingly being unfamiliar with the planet and Riker explaining it to him in "Captain's Holiday".
Not really. I'm with Sci on this one. Do you know the name and customs of every one of the nearly 200 sovereign countries that currently exist on Earth? Did you even know there were that many? And that's just one planet's worth of sovereign states. In an interstellar union of hundreds of entire worlds, it would easily be possible for a citizen of one member planet to go through an entire lifetime without learning a thing about many of its other member planets. Sure, Picard's a well-traveled fellow, but he's spent most of his life discovering or exploring worlds beyond the Federation's borders.

Although, granted, given that Picard was more of a rake in his youth, it is a little unlikely that he was unaware of the world that was later established as the go-to pleasure planet of the quadrant even as far back as the 22nd century.
Perhaps I should clarify. I didn't have a problem with Picard not knowing Risa's customs. My concern was the episode seemed to imply Picard had never even heard of Risa at all!



T'Girl wrote: View Post
t_smitts wrote: View Post
... and it being such a shock in "The Host" that Trills are joined with symbionts ...
Remember, the majority of Trills aren't joined. And if you interacted with a joined trill, you wouldn't know it unless they told you, or there was a medical exam.

Sisko might have known Curzon for years before finding out he was joined, and if Curzon told Sisko this information in confianace, I can see Sisko keeping it to himself.

It's like when Kirk and McCoy found out the details of Pon Farr, I seriously doubt they told anyone about it.

On whether Trill is a Federation member, it is unclear, but I lean toward not a Member.
The notion of this being a secret is so at odds with DS9, it might be better to pretend it never happened.

It's suggested that being selected for joining is a high honor that much of the population strives for. (In "Equilibrium", it was feared that if word got out that as much as half the population was compatible, people would fight over symbionts like prizes). It's hard to imagine most of the population striving for this and successfully keeping it a secret from outsiders. (Especially since "The Host" implied that they weren't even intentionally keeping it a secret!)

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Risa is a Member. Worf made a statement to the effect that "Risa has the most elaborate (terraforming?) mechinism in the entire Federation." You really have to twist that around for Risa not to be a Member.

True. It's just hard to reconcile with Picard being unaware of a Fed world.

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
t_smitts wrote: View Post
The only think that damn hard to explain is them being members as far back as the late 23rd Century, if not further, and it being such a shock in "The Host" that Trills are joined with symbionts. (Then again, considering DS9 basically ignored everything about that episode except for that basic premise, maybe we should too).
They wouldn't necessarily have been members since the 23rd century. While the Trill were certainly known to the Federation back then, it's possible membership didn't happen until sometime in the 24th century.
I was assuming, based on Curzon being a Fed diplomat dealing with Kor, Kang, and Koloth back then.

We know Trills had contact with the Federation at least as far back as the 2240's, what with Emony being on Earth at the time.
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