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Old January 4 2013, 02:10 PM   #25
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Re: Enterprise-C Bridge Layout

Timo wrote: View Post
The slash thing appears in two forms in Fletcher's notes: color on red, and red on color. Lamentably, that's not quite systematically applied in practice, as none of the Academy scenes feature the supposed "instructor" model, red on color.
Agreed, but all we do is ignore the production failures; it's quite simple.

Dropping the concept and accepting full red as a generic Academy color applicable to instructors as well would basically eliminate some discrepancies, such as Valeris.
And if it were a "real" scenario that would be completely and utterly stupid: You'd have no way to distinguish between a graduated Lt who works as an Academy instructor, and a Lt who is at the Academy and attending further training courses.

Valeris was a costuming error; it's as simple as that. By rights she ought to have been wearing operations gold for her undertunic, so the fact that they mixed in a red undertunic is the absolute least of my concerns.

Saavik may have dedicated the precious study hours to some sciences pursuit or another, calculating that she could get the command training later on; the Academy certainly appears flexible that way, in both universes.
On this it seems we all agree. I'd go so far as to suggest that Saavik had graduated as a junior science(s) officer some time prior to TWOK, supported by her manning Navigation during that film (Chekov setting the precedent, IIRC he was able to stand-in at the science station in TOS), and then assigned as Science Officer, probably Head of Sciences; or possibly even Exec on Grissom.

If we don't count onscreen hours but rather individual costuming decisions, it's not really exaggerated to say that more (main and guest) characters in TOS are introduced in "wrong" colors or ranks than in "right" ones.
A) TOS has little to do with this, as the 1701-C appeared in a TNG episode.
B) Go and count all of the costumes used for Starfleet guest appearances on TNG, go on. I dare ya. When you compile a complete list and you've determined how many were right or wrong, come back and we'll talk.

When they then stick to those, wrong simply becomes right.
And when have they stuck with these mistakes? Even Tuvok eventually was given appropriate rank insignia. (and then later on promoted up to LtCmdr).

Basically, I'm saying that none of the complex models created backstage are valid, and that the simple thing is to assume Starfleet in-universe uses a complex (or flexible) model that differs from the defunct intended ones.
Trying to wrangle up some other "complex (or flexible) model" for Starfleet is not the simple option. You're trying to fix something that wasn't broken to begin with. And as far as those models being valid is concerned: I'll take Bob Fletcher's word over yours any day of the week!

It sounds more like what you're saying is: You want to replace one model which was perfectly rational, and despite your protestations is not really that complex; comes from a member of the original production team, and furthermore was adhered to in all subsequent productions (albeit somewhat sloppily by the time of TNG) with something infinitely less consistent, and over-complicated -- all so you can fit production flubs into your personal head canon.

The former seems unlikely, considering how officer-heavy all the TOS movie era bridges are under this particular uniform scheme, and how TNG goes all-officer with the next uniform scheme again.
And yet we see a large number of extras in the later TOS movies manning assorted stations on the various bridges. It could very well be that by the 2340s we see the outcome of a long slide towards greater complements of enlisted crew versus officers. Likewise, there are a good 20/+ years until TNG rolls out so that the reverse may have occurred (though with the Ent-D being the flagship by that point, this may not be par for the course throughout the fleet!) ETA: I assume of course you mean rank scheme, not uniform; since by that era the uniforms are... *ahem* uniform for all personnel.

Not that I'm necessarily arguing the point on this one - it's merely a possibility.

Still, those officers apparently weren't killed by exploding consoles, as the consoles are intact - begging the question of what killed or incapacitated them;
Good point - this could be taken as supporting that this is merely an Auxiliary Control, and that the regular bridge officers are corpses somewhere on the Main Bridge.

But Fletcher's scheme already crumbles under the weight of errors elsewhere, so it should not be considered as a strict limiting factor when considering our options here, either.
In your opinion. Personally I'll take the official production materials as they were intended, and consider this to be another TNG-era production c^ck up...
For those determined to contort yourselves into knots so as to include every minor production flub as gospel, and shoehorn it into "cannnonnnnn": STOP. I don't have all day to waste on here; I quite like enjoying real life thankyouverymuch.
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