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Old January 2 2013, 11:20 PM   #388
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Re: Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

Jackson_Roykirk wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Not to mention every single timeline in "Parallels"!
I tried to argue that one once, but someone pointed out that there could have been an infinite number of possibilities we DIDN'T see in "Parallels" where the crew NEVER came together. We just happened to see the hundred's of thousands where they DID happen to come together.

I can buy that. But still, that means it is possible for the same crew to all come together in another timeline.
Perhaps another timeline, but not ST09 because that one wasnít chosen from an infinite number of possibilities because it suited the needs of the plot. It is a direct copy of the prime timeline with a significant change that we have every right to believe would normally cause the opposite result to what actually happened.

While not directed at Jackson_Roykirk necessarily, I do believe that there is a difference between an "establishing implausibility" and a continuing series of unlikely plot points that keep rubbing our noses in what the writers are up to.

YARN wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Well, we don't have to see that in mystical terms. One could just say that disrupted timestreams tend to correct themselves by making small course corrections.
Course correction implies agency, purpose, which takes us right back to mysticism.

How would the universe know who was important or which ice cave they should be in? How did the universe intervene? What did it do to make sure this happened? What laws of physics were involved here?

Good post. I doesn't seem like "over thinking" to question basic science in a science fiction story. Unfashionable maybe.

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
YARN wrote: View Post
Because nothing fits better with a progressive technological utopian vision of the future, than good old-fashioned fatalism?.
You may be overthinking it. It was mostly just a plot contrivance to give the audience what it expected: the familiar cast of TOS, back together again. I was just pointing out that the time-stream fixing itself is a standard plot device in classic SF, dating back to Amazing and Astounding, probably. It may be a cheat, but it's one time-travel and parallel universe stories have been using for decades. Kind of like "universal translators" or aliens who conveniently speak English.
Except as I mentioned previously, those things aren't supposed to contradict basic science.

Moreover I somehow doubt most of those stories used that plot device to allow the universe to so selectively "correct itself" time and again in full view of the audience. That seems more like "abuse" than "use" to me. And lets face it, such behaviour would be ripped to shreds if people hadn't liked the movie.

Plus, as a rule, I don't judge STAR TREK movies on whether they adhere to some abstract, ideological agenda.
You mean like "THE 'LAWS' OF PHYSICS"?! ()

Telling a good story is at least equally as important as staying true to some sort of high-falutin' "vision." We're talking fiction here, not sermons.
OH, I see. You're addressing those of us who are misguided enough to value the real, if subtle (in TOS), feeling that the Star Trekís future is at least to some degree socially and morally optimistic. Well this isn't the first time you have said something like: "Telling a good story is at least equally as important as staying true to some sort of high-falutin' "vision." as though if we look hard enough we might find some sort of reasonable compromise in ST09 between those two qualities.

And I will argue to my dying day that TOS was never "utopian." Optimistic, yes, but full of drama and tragedy and conflict as well . . .
I have no problem with the view that Star Trek is not "utopian." Nor do I believe that when most people use the word "utopian" to describe ST they mean a "perfect society". I think that like "reboot", it is just too convenient. So that contention is hopefully a straw-man.

The point is that ST09 is not even optimistic (allowing minor quibbles about nuSpock's so-called character development etc), unless your view of optimism is simply: "The good guys won". Socially and morally (based on what we saw, not fan speculation) its it worse and/or no better than now, and that was probably intentional up to a point. Strange that with all the homages, we didnít get the one about not killing (or attempting to kill) today. Sure, there was some lip-service, but "luckily" it didn't interfere with the plot.

Last edited by UFO; January 2 2013 at 11:36 PM.
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