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Old January 2 2013, 07:29 PM   #273
Lynx
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Re: Did Voyager get better or worse when Kes was replaced with 7 of 9?

[QUOTE=exodus;7475797]
Lynx wrote: View Post
First of all, I've worked in the entertainment business myself so I know a lot about what sort of business which goes on behind the curtains, not only nice things.
exodus wrote: View Post
Business is about making profit to maintain it. It can't always be about being nice.
Maybe. But aren't there higher and more valuable things than pure profit, such as honesty, decency and respect for other people? Or have our civilization lowered ourselves to the same level as the Ferengi?

Lynx wrote: View Post
I don't see the dumping of Kes as a personal insult to be or the Kes fans. I see it as a cruel, stupid and unnecessary decision which they tried to cover up with vague statements. "Fury" is another story, that one was a deliberate insult to the Kes fans.
exodus wrote: View Post
Another part of running a good business is knowing to can't please everybody. This is why producers listen to fan feed back but they can't allow all of it to affect how they run the show.
There was no reason bring back fans that may or may not have still been watching the show to begin with to "deliberately" insult them. There is no point and nothing to gain from that. What would be the purpose?
Sorry, I don't see the entire writing staff and producers all sitting around saying: "Well, we have 5 stories written. What should we go with?"
" Pulp them all, I want you to write a story that will personally and deliberately piss off Kes fans." "
"..but Kes isn't in the show anymore."
"WRITE IT!!!"
......and then they ALL agreed on it.
Highly unlikely that would waste a budget and resources on something that wasn't going to make them a profit due to further alienation of viewers. Especially since they were trying to gain more viewers by using that gimmick of bring her back, not push them away. What really happened was it was a script that sounded better on paper but ended up being poorly executed during filming. Nothing more, nothing less.
No, you can't please everyone. But you can at least avoid insulting too many. As for "Fury" I see no reason at all to come up with that horrible episode at all if it wasn't meant to be a deliberate "finger" to the Kes fans, especially those who dared to defy the gods by participating in a letter campaign for re-instating of the character. The story in "Fury" had no importance of effect at all to the ongoing Voyager story and it didn't affect or mean anything to later events in the series. There was no reason to come up with it in the first place.

Lynx wrote: View Post
As for liking, Neelix was clearly the most disliked character on the show but they didn't dump him. Kim wasn't that popular either. So much for "fan feed back"! And if they really cared for the fans, they shouldn't have come up with such an insulting episode as "Fury".
exodus wrote: View Post
Seems like everyone that worked on the show from Paramount, their marketing researchers and production staff all had gotten enough statistics to say differently.
Another evidence that they had little contact with and no interest of the world outside their own little group for internal admiration.

Lynx wrote: View Post
So you mean that if Kes had stayed, the viewers would have abandoned Voyager. Now that is qualified rubbish! And the dumping of Kes was "for the greater good". That's actually cruel. But of course, I didn't know that Kes was the reason for all that's bad in Star Trek. Obviously it was her fault that TOS was abandoned in 1969 and "Enterprise" was dumped after three seasons. Silly me who didn't realize that.
exodus wrote: View Post
Never mind, I see talking business economics is pointless with you.
I was under the impression we could actually have an mature adult conversation.
It's a bit difficult to have a mature adult conversation with someone who constantly blame the character Kes for everything that was possibly wrong with Voyager. First of all, there was no reason to dump Kes due to low ratings. Since Voyager was the third in a row with Star Trek series, they should have realized that Voyager never would reach such high ratings as TNG. Second, adding Seven did only temporary increase the ratings for the show, after season 4 they became lower than they had been in season 1-3. Third, they could have added Seven and kept Kes, fourth, they could have dumped Kim or Neeelix who were less popular than Kes, fifth, the actors who played Naomi, Icheb and Vorik didn't work for free so why have them in each and every episode if they were so tight on money and sixth, they could have kept the season 1-3 crew unchanged since Voyager after all did have decent ratings and there was no risk that it should be cancelled.

Lynx wrote: View Post
As for dumping Kes "for the greater good", that reminds me of certain "big political bosses" who also "dumped" people "for the greater good", for the building of socialism and who knows what. Isn't it a nice society we have created?
exodus wrote: View Post
I don't even know how this relates to anything.
It has everything to do with this. Are we no better than Ferengis?
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