View Single Post
Old December 31 2012, 06:27 AM   #86
Sci's Avatar
Location: Montgomery County, State of Maryland
Re: Where was Earth's Leader?

Merry Christmas wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ It most definitely is necessary for DC to be a state.
Again, if another nation can have a federal district that isn't a state, and the residents of that district can have elected representation in both houses of the federal government, (and vote for president), why does DC have to be a state to have the same arrangement in this nation?
Because a federal district can have its laws and budgets overturned by the federal Congress if it feels like it; a state cannot.

Perfect example: Congress trying to stop the District of Columbia from using D.C. taxpayer money from subsidizing abortions for the poor in D.C. Why should some asshole from Arizona or Colorado get to vote on an internal D.C. matter like that? It's not like anyone gets to tell Arizona what to do with its internal affairs.

D.C. statehood is the only way to stop that kind of interference with its internal affairs.

And that's to say nothing of the fact that the people of the District of Columbia want to be a state and do not want to be part of Maryland. When more people than populate the State of Wyoming want statehood, that should be a determining factor, too.

Because that would put the federal government physically inside of one of the states.
And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.


Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ Mars is a Federation member world in its own right, and is independent from Earth.
Book canon or Tv canon?
^ Both, I think.
Book, actually. The canon established that Mars was colonized, but it was the novels that have established that the Martian polity became independent of Earth and then joined the Federation as a separate Member later on.

Specifically, ENT: The Romulan War: Beneath the Raptor's Wing established that the Confederated Martian Colonies was formed after the War of Martian Independence in 2105 -- 25 years before the founding of United Earth in 2130 (Articles of the Federation). Presumably, the CMC fought for independence against one of the pre-Unification sovereign states on Earth, or against an Earth corporation.

Mars's date of Federation Membership in the novels is unestablished. The reference book Star Trek: Star Charts, which the novels are sometimes selectively inconsistent with, refers to the United Martian Colonies as having joined the Federation as a charter Member in 2161; this contradicts Articles, which established Earth, Vulcan, Andor, Tellar, and Alpha Centauri to have been the only founding Members. One might reconcile this to a point by presuming that the Confederated Martian Colonies joined later that same year.

Longinus wrote: View Post
Star Grinch wrote: View Post
I dunno, historically even the most democratic of governments don't just allow a part of the country to leave on a whim and I just can't see the Federation endorsing a secession clause.

I definitely could see Section 31 arranging accidents for anyone who starts voicing such views.
It is an alliance and you certainly can leave.
The Federation has exercised all of the powers and authorities of a sovereign state; it's not just an alliance.

But the Federation is a sovereign state built upon the idea of mutual consent and a democratic mandate. It would almost certainly put into place a procedure for a Federation Member to democratically chose to peacefully secede.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
If Earth wants to leave the Federation it's one thing, but what if it's just Earth's moon who wants to leave the Federation or even the United Earth?
I'm sure that the Federation has a procedure in place both for constituent polities of Federation Members to accede to their own separate Federation Membership, and for Federation Members or their constituent polities to secede and become completely independent, sovereign states.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
A Moonsian Declaration of independence would be followed by an overwhelming and violent military response form Earth.

Who wants to keep the buzzkills around if they want to leave the party?
Democratic socialism is the hope of human freedom.

Last edited by Sci; December 31 2012 at 06:45 AM.
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote