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Old December 30 2012, 01:35 PM   #248
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Re: Did Voyager get better or worse when Kes was replaced with 7 of 9?

Star Grinch wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
Star Grinch wrote: View Post

Ah, yes the silent majority argument. I never found that one convincing wherever applied. Braga's turned out a lot of Trek material to be sure, but that doesn't mean we can't voice a negative opinion just because Braga's name is attached to the work somewhere. For the most part I liked his work better in TNG than in VOY and ENT.

Really what I'm reading from your post exodus is that you don't like some fan's opinions so you're trying to invalidate them? Why is that and why are you the one who gets to do it? Really I think it's the height of arrogance for anyone to tell someone else what they should think or like and dislike.
You can like and dislike whatever you choose but you also can't say isn't valid if you refuse to look at the argument from a business point of view. It's arrogant to think that you know more about what runs a TV show than those that actually worked on it and to think that we're the only ones watching the show. Do you really think all the members of this site is enough to keep a show in production?
Obviously not, but if you alienate the core of your fanbase you can't expect to sustain a franchise either. I really always thought one of the reasons Enterprise got canceled was they couldn't even keep their own fanbase interested. In the end, they're the ones who not only watch the show, but spread the word to the casual fans, buy the products and the such. They lost me midway through season 2 when it was originally airing for example.
I agree here. The hard-core fans were the ones who made Trek come back after TOS was cancelled in 1969. They kept the dream alive. Without them Trek would have been a commodity from the 60:s.

A show or any entertainment thing who loses its hardcore fans is doomed. The casual viewers may add money to the box and numbers to the ratings but they can never carry a show. Why? because they are casual viewers. They don't have the heart for it in the same way as the hardcore fans have. If they find another novelty, they might abandon Trek or whatever it is for the new show. The hardcore fans are those who carry the show in difficult times and who can be the deciding factor if the show might stay alive or not.

exodus wrote: View Post
Says who, a handful of fans on a message board?

If Trek fans were the only ones watching the shows, Voyager would have ended production after the first season. TNG would have NEVER been as popular or had the ground breaking ratings it did. All the die hard Trek fans globally still isn't a big enough audience to keep a show in production. There is an entire world of viewers out there who aren't represented here. There are casual viewers that watched the show as well. There is a larger majority of the audience that watched the show and didn't have any issues and have no interest in joining a fanbased message board. There is a bigger part of the audience that didn't like Kes over those that did and proved the show can run just fine without your support. J.J. Abrams proved Trek can still find a new audience and be successful without a majority of the fans support.

Too fire an entire writing staff just for the comfort of a handful of the viewing audience is irrational and unrealistic. Fans such as yourself need to wake up and realize you don't run Trek or the choices they make in production. Paramount has accounting and staff researchers that that compile data for things such as this GLOBALLY. Voyager's ratings held strong enough for it to run 7 full years which is exactly what those that created it and Paramount & their accountants hoped for. That's a successful show in the eyes of a TV studio. You don't fire a entire staff if the majority of the audience is holding strong, still tuning and and bringing in the sales you expected it too and you certainly don't based you're production on a small portion of your audience. Voyager just recently got voted #1 Trek series people wanted to see brought to Blu-Ray.(Reported on Yahoo & Facebook) Further proof that the show has a larger audience and that the majority are still willing to pay for it.
Why so hostile to the Kes fans? You know, there are many fans who like Kes, maybe more than those who dislike her. But they aren't as...........persistent on the message boards as some of those who dislike (or in certain cases hate) the character are.

As for sales, even critical fans like me might contribute to that. I recently bought a Star Trek Calender, I bought the latest Voyager book (just to read about Janeway's return) and I might buy the first three seasons of Voyager on Blue-Ray when the time comes. I also watched the Abrams movie, although I wasn't that enthusiastic over it and the scenario which was presented in it.

As for the Abramsmovie, its success was based on two things: Good marketing plus all those Star Trek fans out there who were starving for new Star Trek things and would have watched anything just to see something labeled Star Trek on screen. Then we'll see if they can keep that interest. I personally think that Trek is better as a serie or as a movie.

exodus wrote: View Post
Voyager's ratings didn't drop low enough that couldn't do it's intended seven year run. No Voyager didn't hold TNG numbers(no Trek or any other show in syndication before it ever has) but it wasn't in danger of cancellation either. If Voyager got voted to be the 1# Trek show to seen on Blu-ray, then I'd say there's plenty of fan loyalty behind it. It's tells me and Paramount people are still willing to pay for it, again! If Voyager didn't create fan loyalty, then it wouldn't have even held enough ratings to continue for as long as it did and it wouldn't sell and still be selling the merchandise it does. Voyager also has many fans that weren't into Trek before but the laid back style of the show appealed to them (or Seven did)or new fans whom Voyager was their first introduction into Trek.

What also has to be considered is where and how Voyager was shown at the time for it's ratings. In many major cities across the country, Voyager ran at the same time as DS9(on different stations) causing Trek fans to choose which to watch. Many stuck with DS9 because they were already 3 seasons into it. In other major cities, station programing didn't carry UPN or Voyager at all. So how was a show to have ratings that were truly competitive if it isn't being shown everywhere? TNG & DS9 were accessible in far more stations nation wide, thus being allowed to be shown in more households. With that in mind, Voyager is impressive to still hold the audience it did and to last it's full run being carried by less stations and in fewer households. Voyager defied all the odds against it and still succeeded.
I think it differs from place to place. Where I live, TNG was on constant re-runs since it's first airing in the beginning of the 90:s and the latest re-run was two years ago. DS9 was dumped after one season because of low viewing ratings. Voyager had a good following for the first three-four seasons, then the ratings went down and it was moved from a weekly spot to late Sunday evenings (which is not a good time for shows where I live). Enterprise had low ratings from the start and was also moved to late Sunday evenings after a while.
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