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Old December 28 2012, 10:19 AM   #207
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Re: Did Voyager get better or worse when Kes was replaced with 7 of 9?

Lynx wrote: View Post

Kes was as well developed as any other main character on the show.
exodus wrote: View Post
She was as underdeveloped and pushed into the background just as much as Chakotay, Kim, Neelix & Tuvok.
Now you're twisting my words again. Please don't do that.
What I was stating was that Kes was no more underdeveloped than any of the Voyager charaters, including Janeway, seven and The Doctor. They all had flaws

Lynx wrote: View Post

As I see it, they should have omitted or got rid of the silly short lifespan and instead focus on her personality which was the most interesting with the character. She could have had some limited powers, just like these she showed in "Persistence Of Vision" and at the end of "Cold Fire".

According to the video, dumping Kes was a loss for the writers as well. It's possible. The actions of the writers when it comes to Kes is confusing, to say the least. They could come up with decent kes stories up to the last minute of her time on the show, then all of a sudden they lost those abilities. That's one of the reasons I don't believe their statements of "having difficulties to write for the character". It's more like they've been ordered to come up with such a statement.

OK, Kes could have been written better. But she's not the only character suffering from erratic writing, in fact all of them did.

So Kes wasn't the only character suffering from erratic writing. The whole show did. Still, the show has a certain charm and I do find the characters great.
exodus wrote: View Post
This is all easy to say and accuse in retrospect.
When you're writing a series as it's in production things are different. It's proven fact people don't see mistakes or missteps until after they're done. Things that sound good on paper can can be a train wreck upon execution.
I think anybody that watched X-Files, HEROES & LOST knows this to be true.
Besides, if they were going to lie about it the majority of people don't lie by putting the blame back on themselves.
They showed they had trouble writing for Chakotay, Kim, Neelix add a few others but fact they couldn't write better for Kes is suspicious?
What made her so special that hey suddenly could shake off writers block just for her and not anybody else?
They never stated that they had any problems writing for Chakotay, Kim, Neelix and a few others. They only stated that they suddenly got all the problems to write for Kes when season 4 started. Now that is suspicious!

As for the writers, we never heard or saw what Piller, Biller, Klink and some others really thought. It was all Braga and Jeri Taylor's fairy tales which kept changing all the time. Mind you that Taylor had no problems coming up with good Kes stories until that magic moment between season 3 and 4 when she suddenly lost those abilities (except for her book "Pathways" when she suddenly become able to write about Kes again).

exodus wrote: View Post
I also don't agree about getting rid of her life span because even without powers, it's what made her alien. By focusing on her life span it would have enhanced her personality because it would continue to bring up the issue of mortality. What would you do or how would you live your life if you knew you only had 9 years? Would you still spend you time with the EMH, who's has less life experience than you or would you spend more time around Tuvok and Janeway who have seen and done more than you could imagine? Having never even seen the sun until recently, wouldn't star charting hold more appeal than being a nurse? Couldn't she have been a nurse on Ocampa?
The lifespan was only silly. It would have been obvious for anyone to realize that species with such a short lifespan could only develop into primates.

I can agree that making her the ship's nurse wasn't the best move. She should have been a counselor, like Troi. As for star charts, it could have been a good idea if it had been used properly but the risk would have been that she had been more pushed into the background. Making her a nurse at least gave us some great interaction with The Doctor

exodus wrote: View Post
So yes, I do believe they didn't know how to write for Kes because they began to limit her desire. Kes that dared to questioned her peoples perception of God(the Caretaker) didn't exist anymore. The girl that took charge of her life in "Caretaker" was crying "I don't know what to do, I'm so confused" by "Tuvix." She left her own people/family and home behind without question but in by the end of "Darkling" she decides leaving those she loves isn't the best course of action. WTF!?!
Most of the Kes who dared to question The Caretaker did exist all the way. It was just that her life was different on Voyager. She enjoyed her life there so there was no reason for her to question things. As for the scenario in "Tuvix", of course she was confused. Anyone would have been that. If they had written Kes different in that scenario, I'm sure that someone would have slagged her off for not showing those emotions in that scene.

And why should she leave in "Darkling"? Of course she realized that she had a better chance to see, explore and finally arrive to Earth with the Voyager crew than to travel limited areas in Zahir's small ship. Besides that, she had her new family and a new, happy life on Voyger so why should she leave?
Who'd let that cat in here?

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