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Old December 19 2012, 08:24 PM   #1055
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

I have no idea, and am genuinely curious, as to what Nolan would have done vis-a-vis Joker had Ledger lived. To me, the fact that he disappeared from TDK after saying that he and Bats would be "doing this dance forever" suggests that he might have been even more done with the character than he was with Dent.

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Gaith wrote: View Post
I forgot about it because it wasn't important.
It suddenly becomes important again when you start talking about the character having no humanity.
Eh, a tossed-off expository line about once having had a girlfriend doesn't strike me as compelling evidence that the character actually seen in the movie still retains any of that (alleged) humanity. And it's a lot less interesting, to my tastes, than Mask of Zorro's Montero wishing he didn't have to kill a large number of innocent workers to secure his personal wealth and status.

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Gaith wrote: View Post
Agreed, but a movie with one-dimensional villains is rarely "deep" or "sophisticated".
How "deep" or "sophisticated" is a conflicted villain by virtue of being fashionable?
I'm honestly befuddled by this question. You're saying that by not writing complex villains, the writers were bravely bucking trendiness? And that anyone who does try to write a nuanced villain only does so out of groupthink?

Set Harth wrote: View Post
If only Nolan's villains believed in something, such as a world free of corruption, or, failing that, free of Gotham.
Here's the League's mission statement, if you will, from BB:
Gotham's time has come. Like Constantinople or Rome before it the city has become a breeding ground for suffering and injustice. It is beyond saving and must be allowed to die. This is the most important function of the League of Shadows. It is one we've performed for centuries. Gotham... must be destroyed.
[shrugs] ... I guess this line either strikes one as totally moronic, a screenwriter's overt refusal to offer anything but the flimsiest and most inane pretext for one-dimensional evil, or it doesn't.

Myself, I find the notion of a fanatical, millenium-old apparently secular organization devoted to mass murder to be utterly at odds with virtually all of human history, and thus about as sophisticated as a Power Rangers big bad. I'm curious as to why the League considers Gotham to be more full of "suffering and injustice" than any other of a number of cities, from Mexico City or Pyonyang to Moscow or Mogadishu. And I really don't understand why the League didn't attack Gotham several decades ago, when crime rates across the US were significantly higher than they are today, unless, of course, the Nolanverse's history of 20th-century America is intended to be utterly at odds with recent history as we know it, in which case it well and truly is a fable as devoid of sophistication and contemporary relevance.
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