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Old December 18 2012, 02:36 AM   #1048
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Re: "The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Set Harth wrote: View Post
The Joker is LOS in all but name. Wanting to watch the world ( but specifically Gotham ) burn isn't fundamentally different from wanting to destroy Gotham.
Maybe not, but what about the planet's other cities? Joker would like to see the whole world burn, but I never got the sense that the LOS was intent on destroying, say Honolulu. Kinda makes a huge lot of difference if you happen to live in Honolulu.

Set Harth wrote: View Post
There is from Selina, who starts as a kind of "villain" only to become a hero later on.
Yeah, not really. A mischief-maker, sure, but hardly a "big bad"-level villain. Especially when it's revealed that she's more afraid of other criminals than she hungers for power for its own sake.

Set Harth wrote: View Post
You may like the idea of conflicted, guilt-ridden villains, but not every villain has to be conflicted and guilt-ridden. And if all villains were that way, it wouldn't be "interesting" anymore.
Agreed, but a movie with one-dimensional villains is rarely "deep" or "sophisticated". Palpatine is not a complex character, nor is Bane. I don't consider ROTJ deep or sophisticated, either. TDKR, like Star Wars, is fable-level storytelling. Nothing wrong with that, but call a spade a spade.

Set Harth wrote: View Post
It's already come up that you forgot all about "Ducard"'s backstory as described in BB.
I forgot about it because it wasn't important. What does "losing his one great love" have to do with justifying mass murder in a foreign country based on an unexplained system of morality? If I've missed something important, please point it out, but I think you're dealing in trivia here.

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Magneto shows no guilt, and doesn't display genuine compassion, other than in his familiarity with Mystique - he only appears compassionate toward another mutant who he hopes to recruit into his ranks.
Exactly. He proves to be a total monster, yet still comes across as more sympathetic than any of Nolan's big baddies, because, as monstrous as he may be, he at least believes in something - a world free of human-on-mutant oppression. I agree that adding dimension to the Joker would have diminished that character, but the fact remains that Mask's Montero is a deeper and more "sophisticated" character than Talia/Bane. And I do think, for that matter, that Mask is thus deeper and more sophisticated than TDKR. (And Casablanca more so than both.)

But again, if I've missed some profound themes here, I'd genuinely like to hear about 'em.
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