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Old December 17 2012, 12:47 AM   #30
Lieutenant Commander
Re: A country without Money how it's work?

KamenRiderBlade wrote: View Post
The Castellan wrote: View Post
KamenRiderBlade wrote: View Post

I'm Asian also, but I believe that Trek's idealistic Earth Society is doable, it just will take alot of work, many decades or centuries of education, and probably alot of blood shed between people in power and those not in power.

I think it can happen, just not easily. Breaking away the current socio economic / education mindset will take a long time to do, but it'll have to start at some point.
Actually, I think the opposite of what he said, our society right now is stagnant. When money is talking, advances are slowed down or downright ceased. Plus look at what competition brought us: Arguments, conflict, war, lying, cheating, stealing, killing.....just to be/stay #1. Plus I am sure we'd have better energy, medicines, and so on if competition and money were not the focus....since I feel there's more to gain by NOT advancing than advancing. Big oil's making billions in think they'd congratulate whomever brings out a superior energy source and kindly step down? I doubt it. You think big pharma would allow a cancer cure be known if it was something as simple as a mixture of a few herbs or minerals, something that you can't patent? I doubt it. Also, one day of war is a lot more profitable than an entire year of peace time.

Now I might be called a loony, but if I was to discover something like free energy or some miracle cure, I would only patent it to keep big business from exploiting it and post the design or formula on the internet, on TV, on printed media so everyone and anyone could get it. I'd not make a cent off it and the greedy power mongers could not legally touch it. If I were to make such a discovery, I'd not want a single penny from it, I don't put progress/salvation on a check book or whatever, it's to be used by everyone and no one has ANY rights to them whatsoever, not me, not you, not politicians, especially not military, no's to be used by everyone.
You do realize that my previous posts were all in agreement with you effectively.

The current society is screwed up because of the socioeconomic structure that is ingrained. Because of the financial system and power grabs, we aren't leveraging techology to it's fullest potential and making life better for everybody.

All sides want power.

Russia / China / Iran / etc. wanted more control by writing in rules in the ITU conference for more control over the internet.

I'm not saying America is better, USA has plenty of flaws in capitol hill and the sheer arrogance of just killing what we don't like instead of truly trying to work things out.
Power grabs doesn't require financial system to be happen. Even in a non existence monetary system country, power grabs can be happened.

KamenRiderBlade wrote: View Post
Brainsucker wrote: View Post
Well yes, there are only a handful of inventors who successfully develop new technologies. And what jobs are unproductive to society as is only serve to "move money around? Tell me some example of it! Gambling den? Whore House? Oh yes, You're right. Banking system? Trading (export - Import) ? Manufacture (clothes? electronic? vehicle? cigarette (oh for Cigarette, I agree with you, it is unproductive for society))
Secretary's, Insurance agents (the entire insurance system), Reality TV stars, stock broker's, most CEO's and upper management. The list can go on about who isn't being a truly useful member of society and just occupies a job for the sake of it.

You know, the drive of monetary based economy is capitalism. Well, maybe it has many flaw, but with capitalism, there are competition. And with competition, ideas and innovation are born. Apple won't develop I-pad, I-Phone, etc, if it's not because of monetary reason. Our cars won't be like we know today if there is no monetary reason from the producers. The industries would be the same as 19th century if there is no monetary reason to improve it. It is not because they are too greedy like the Ferengi (although still greedy), but because of the competition. They improve, and innovate because they want to become better than their competitors.
There is also monopoly's and holding technology back for the sake of greed. The Apple global lawsuits in the smartphone market and various other markets. You've got to admit that "Rounded Edges" on a smartphone is a silly thing to patent. "Swiping" at the edge of a webpage and have it snap back has been done by others. There are countless things wrong with current system, apple is just one of the causes of it.

Competition is all well and good, but most companies out there aim to become monopolies and stifle competition. Look at all the industries who have become 2 company races or 2.x company races and watch how progress has slowed.

Commerical Graphics card is now limited to AMD / Nvidia
Commercial CPU's are limited to Intel / AMD
Sound Card's have Creative / small no names
Hard Drives have Western Digital / Seagate / small names
The entire US ISP infrastructure is limited to regional monopolies of Verizon, Comcast, Time Warner, Cox.
PC OS options: Microsoft (by a large margin), Linux, Apple

Competition is good, but capitalism aims for monopolies.
The bold one : Insurance Company guys will not agree with you. But I won't waste my energy to defend them. And I hope Star Trek Series and this website Admin are not in your long list. Or else, why would you here in the first place?

Yes, monopoly is indeed one of the Capitalism negative effects. The question is, why Capitalism Countries like USA generally richer and more advanced technologically than a non capitalism country like Nepal? Even China grabs Capitalism System now, and looks at how they improve.

Ah, I realized now. Our debate has gone into which is better between socialism and capitalism system. It has already has gone too off topic. And back to topic, Trek's Earth economy model is indeed an extreme socialism system.

Last edited by Brainsucker; December 17 2012 at 01:05 AM.
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