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Old December 14 2012, 08:38 AM   #4
Re: Ques. Re: Tal Shiar & Obsidian Order After Botched Gamma Qaud. Mis

First of all, of course the destruction of 20 Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order ships wouldn’t be welcomed by either, but surely they had more than 20 ships.
Since neither organization apparently was supposed to have any ships, scraping together this number might already have beggared them.

Also interesting is the fact that there appear to be way more than 20 tachyon emission sources on Dax' computer screen when the cloaked fleet approaches the wormhole. Perhaps 20 is merely the number of Romulan warbirds commandeered by the Tal'Shiar, while the sixty or so Cardassian ships are not mentioned in dialogue? Or vice versa? Tain is said to command 20 ships manned by combat veterans - perhaps the rest are crewed by rookies?

Visually, we never see even 20 ships, but OTOH the fleet does manage to destroy one-third of the planet's surface even when we see a teeny weeny spot on one side of the planet being hit. Other ships from the fleet firing at other parts of the planet, perhaps?

However, I think this is a fairly academical aspect of it all. Even if the intel organizations lost just one ship, it would be the public humiliation of the loss that would totally destroy the organization's ability to resist the Dominion.

Regarding the Tal Shiar, I can’t really recall any TNG or DS9 episodes that said whether or not they have any ships or if they do, how many.
"Face of the Enemy" implies that they just commandeer regular Imperial vessels at will... It's not explicit, though.

But, can it really be argued that if the Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order lost their ships and lost their reputation, that both the Romulan Star Empire and the Cardassians would no longer be a threat to the Dominion???
I don't think so. But then again, neither did the writers. Only the two spook organizations were supposed to be ruined; the total destruction of Romulans and Cardassians as interstellar powers and as species would follow later, as remarked offhand by the Vorta in "To the Death".

How can Lovak say that only the Klingons and Federation would be a threat to the Dominion after this mission?
Makes sense, as the Romulans and the Cardassians never seem to attack outright. If the sneaky approach fails them, they are very likely to simply stay back and watch.

In contrast, the Klingons are obligated to try brave frontal assaults by their honor code, while the Feds do that because of their high moral obligations or whatnot. These two cultures of fanatics will remain a military threat even after their many underhanded schemes are thwarted and their operatives and organizations humiliated.

Timo Saloniemi
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