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Old December 2 2012, 01:10 PM   #50
Lynx
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Re: Did Voyager get better or worse when Kes was replaced with 7 of 9?

exodus wrote: View Post
Bring the capt. her coffee isn't exactly spending time on the bridge.
You must have mixed up the characters Neelix was the one who used to bring the captain coffee. Honestly, Kes did more on the bridge than bringing coffee to the captain. Not to mention that her work in sickbay and the Hydrponics Bay was actually very important for the ship. The Doc needed an assistant and someone had to care for creating food supplies for the crew.

If all that is happening off screen, then we the audience aren't watching her grow and develop thru experiences then are we?
Maybe not, but in that case, blame the writers. They weren't doing their job and that goes for the rest of the development after "Caretaker" too. All of a sudden everything was in the right place.

There were issues with the Maquis up until "Meld". The Maquis in "Learning Curve" and Suder were issues dealing with Maquis not following Starfleet protocol as well as murdering a fellow officer because "He looked at me funny."
Neelix could do much of anything right.
He wasn't a very good guide or cook.
I'm not sure how that equates into settling into his role, he wasn't hired to be a jester.
Suder, Dalby, Henley, Chell and Gerron weren't exactly main characters. We didn't see anything of their development either. Suder was killed off in "Basics" and the others dissapeared (or joined The Shuttle and Torpedo Building Team).

Yeah, she was. In the book "Voyager Companion" it describes Kes (who working title was "Mayfly) as the character the audience and crew would see the journey thru the eyes of. Which means she was to be the focus and we were supposed to experience everything from mainly her point of view.
So why didn't they go for that? Obviously they needed better writers.

And still it is unfair to compare Kes with Seven. Kes was supposed to be a main character, Seven was supposed to be the main character.

So Spock, Data, Odo, Worf and the Doctor weren't?
The spirit of Star Trek isn't the stories of exploring the human condition as well discussing social and political injustices? Could have sworn that's exactly what Roddenberry created it for and why he made the casts multi-cultural. IMO I would think the spirit of Star Trek resides within character that question "Who am I?" and "What is my place within the world?"
Now where did I write that Spock, Data, Odo, Worf and The Doctor weren't representing the spirit of Star Trek? I can't recall that I did write that.

The point is that kes also did represent the spirit of Star Trek with her will to learn and explore. When she was kicked out, Voyager became one of those series where good looks and certain attributes are more essential than the premise and story itself.

Not really.
There were still certain characters during the first 3 seasons that received more focus over others. Robert Picardo was already getting the best lines from day 1. I wouldn't kinda hope Kate Mulgrew being in the lead role would earn her a bigger part than the rest. I'd think she herself would take issue if she didn't.
Plus, i guess if you're putting Seven's image on magazine covers, T-Shirts, video games, posters, etc. to draw in an audience, wouldn't you wanna give them what they're tuning in for? I mean Paramount is shelling out all that money, I would think they'd want to try and earn it back.
Interesting how economics plays a hand in business, isn't it?
I have to dissagree about Picardo getting the best lines from day 1. OK, his comments were funny, I agree on that but he was much of a background character in the first episodes. Janeway and Chakotay did have more screen time but they were supposed to be the main characters. If we look at it, Janeway and Chakotay were Group 1, Paris, Tuvok and Torres were group 2 and Kes, Neelix, Kim and The Doctor were group 3 when it came to screen time in the beginning. But still, all of them did get their fair share of standing in the spotlights in the first season. Later on, The Doctor got more and more screen time but the radical change came in season 4 when it started to be al about Seven, The Doctor and Janeway.

As for economics, that's satan's "gift" to humanity. Everywhere where big money gets in control, all enthusiasm and inspiration is killed off. Just look at the world of popular music which really sucks in those days. Over-produced crap without any feeling or emotion at all, performed by models straight out of some fancy magazines. Where did the music go? And the movie and TV industry are no better. Effects and looks instead of good stories and interesting characters.

In the Voyager case, Seven wasn't supposed to become the focus of everyone's attention, Janeway was. It would have been like shoving Picard aside and make Troi the visual point of TNG.

If the "beeeezneeezzz" needs sex and good looks to sell their merchandise, then I would suggest that they put those sexy, good looking characters in from the start and focus on looks instead of good stories and interesting characters. Then we don't have to see our favorites being kicked out for "not being sexy enough" or being insulted by episodes like "Fury".
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