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Old December 1 2012, 11:45 PM   #88
Longinus
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
One, telepathy has nothing to do with the essence of what was happening to McCoy and what Sarek expected of Kirk. Two, mere telepathy is not on the magnitude of what Sarek described as Kirk denying him "his future"

and--

"He entrusted you...with his very essence--with everything that was not of the body. He asked you to bring him to us. And to bring that which he gave you--his Katra--his living spirit."

This was no mind meld, and contrary to you saying:

It may appear 'spiritual' to humans
It is spiritual to Vulcans. Sarek is clear--the Katra is the living spirit, or as some call it--the soul. Again, there's no getting around it: the Spock-related events of STIII are all about his race's religious beliefs--they know as a matter of fact that he has a soul--his future (presumably beyond physical death), but thanks to the restored body being retrieved, it was restored to his physical being, otherwise it would remain a mindless piece of flesh. Nothing more.
Katra is a scientific fact for Vulcans. It is the mental pattern of the person that they can transfer via mind meld. Obviously the Vulcans do not wish the knowledge and experiences of the person to be lost once he or she dies. Note how this 'soul' needs to be stored in a living brain (or in a katric arc, I suppose.)

And Spock without his Katra is not really mindless. He is merely a newborn without any memories or experiences. By restoring Katra he becomes Spock we know.

Uhura specifically refers to the "Son" as the Son of God, a distinct position which is far more than merely referencing a historical figure. She did not water down his identity by reducing him to the random philosopher alone, hence her description.

Now, if Kirk happened to be talking about Lincoln, then that would fall into the catagory of a strict historical reference, as he (Lincoln) was simply a regular man who played a part in a significant chapter of U.S. history.
'Son' is what the space Romans called him, and it is certainly known historical fact that Christ was called 'Son of God' by his followers. It is no way an indication that Uhura herself presumed Christ to be an actual son of God.

You seem to assume that if people acknowledge that someone is an important historical figure and moral and religious leader, they also acknowledge that the supernatural part is true. That just doesn't follow.

Two examples above were not approcahed and/or considered in that manner. Belief in Spock even having a living spirit--his Katra--and his fate (whether the oriignal "future" Sarek spoke of, or the restoration to his body) had nothing to do with attempting to verify its truth through a scientific process or investigation.
Sarek already knows how Katra functions. Vulcans have verified it centuries ago.

Part of the humanity which allows a character such as McCoy to function in fantastic situations comes from his obvious religious upbringing, which guided him to often challenge more secular approaches to situations (seemingly lacking a strict moral compass).
I'm not saying that you're wrong. It's a long time I've watched TOS, but what leads you conclude that McCoy is particularly religious?

Nonsense. Starfleet is not the future's version those engaging in so-called Black Ops, where an anything goes/by any means necessary mentality is the foundation of how the missions are run.

This is one of the reasons Star Wars fans love to criticize Starfleet in any hypothetical conflict with the SW universe's Empire. It is not just about sheer numbers, but what SW fans percieve as Starfleet not being some grim, balls-to-the-walls strike force, but one where higher beliefs would--in theory--prevent them from being effective agianst an enemy who will do anything to anyone, including destroy everything from a family to an entire civilization if its suits their purpose.
Yes, that's called having morals. No religion is involved.

Last edited by Longinus; December 2 2012 at 12:14 AM.
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