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Old November 26 2012, 11:14 AM   #38
Rear Admiral
Re: Do flaws make good characters great?

Sci wrote: View Post
Arpy wrote: View Post
I guess I find some flaws tiresome. You know they're only there because the writer wants to make his life easier. Sure real people are racists, but Kirk, Scotty, Picard? Not all real people are racists even after a lot of trauma and you'd imagine people like these being like them.

Picard's breakdown in "Family" was great immediately after BoBW, but you'd figure by "I, Borg" he'd be over it,
The reality of the situation is that people who are traumatized often relapse into traumatic states years and years afterwards. It's not something you just "get over."

Yeah but these are ubermensch from the 24th century - 21st century untraumatized or bigoted unbermensch to the nth degree. See them go through the process ("Family"), but see them get past it. Especially after nothing different shows in the portrayal of the characters for seasons until a Borg shows up again.

and certainly not bigoted.
I question whether or not the concept of "bigoted" or "prejudiced" applies to the Borg. The Borg are not a people, after all -- the Borg is, in essence, a massive artificial intelligence that has brainwashed and enslaved numerous individuals.

Except that the enslaved can still be saved.

Kirk and Scotty being racists in TUC felt like a slap in the face. The magic of Trek was gone in those moments and I felt like I was watching just a movie.
I don't know what to tell you -- except that people are not perfect, and often harbor prejudices of which they are either unconscious or of which they disapprove of in themselves; that's just a fact. And it's also a fact that Kirk and Scotty overcame their prejudices, even to the point of saving Klingon lives. They may not have been perfect, but they did the right thing, and that counts for something too.
No they overcame their prejudices to find out what skulduggery was afoot wanting to find both their own Federation brothers and Klingon devils who were participating in the assassination/coverup. More to the point, not till this movie, Meyer's second retrocon were any of these characters showing any problems with their old foes. Hell in the previous movie they were drinking and chasing after Klingons and Romulans. Nichelle Nichols was asked to say some fascist line like Yeah but would you want your daughters marrying one of them and she a 21st century woman refused because she saw that it was prejudiced today in the 21st century, let alone in the more sophisticated 23th. Retro-bigotry installed by Meyer trying to show the US-USSR rivalry and frankly, did we give a shit about the Russians not being human beings?
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