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Old November 20 2012, 03:42 AM   #160
Re: Federation Law of restricting cloaking device

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
blssdwlf wrote: View Post
newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
But you CAN see forward at FTL, precisely because you are still stationary in your own reference frame. This isn't even a trekism or a theoretical prediction; in the real world WE are already moving at FTL velocity with respect to distant galaxies 47 billion LY away (and they, in turn, are moving away from us faster than light). Not only do we have no trouble at all seeing what's "ahead" of us, but we can see the heavily distorted/redshifted images of those galaxies near the edge of our visual horizon.
Those examples are still of objects moving Slower Than Light. An object ACTUALLY moving at Faster-Than-Light speed will outrun light. Faster-Than-Light .
Exactly what part of "Only in an outside observer's reference frame" are you not understanding?
Exactly what part of being faster-than-light are you not understanding? Anything traveling faster than the speed of light (in vacuum) will outrun anything traveling at light speed.

If we can still see the galaxy receding from us, even heavily redshifted, it is still only traveling Slower Than Light.

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
The equations apply to FTL just fine. It's just that their larger real-world applications are difficult to parse, but this is equally true of very high sublight velocities anyway.
You know that is silly. Your first interpretation, a FTL ship will arrive before it's emitted photons is correct. Your regression into this silly idea that somehow photons traveling at light speed will outrun a ship traveling faster-than-light is just bizarre.

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
What does "actually" mean in relativity? There's no such thing as a universal reference frame, ergo the only way you could be moving at FTL velocity is with respect to an outside observer.
Wrong. FTL means traveling faster than light (in a vacuum). Special Relativity postulates an invariant light speed (in a vacuum). If you are FTL, you will always be moving faster than the speed of light which is the same across all reference frames. I used "actually" as a simple way to differentiate your examples of objects that appear to, but are not actually, going faster-than-light.

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
In that observer's frame, you're moving FTL. In your OWN frame, you're stationary. What's more, in the frame of a third observer equidistant between you, both you and the second observer may be seen converging on his position and NEITHER of you are FTL.
You forget, in the ship that is traveling Faster-Than-Light's frame, the speed of light will still be SLOWER than the ship.

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
It depends on the reference frame you're using. There's no "absolute" frame to determine who is really moving at what speed.

Special relativity doesn't "talk" about any travel at all. It's a mathematical abstraction to explain why the speed of light is a constant in all inertial reference frames. The IMPLICATIONS of the theory is what is commonly discussed in thought experiments and paradox studies.
Yes, and with the speed of light constant in all reference frames, a FTL object will then be moving faster than the speed of light. That is the implication.

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
Significantly, plugging in a number greater than C in the bottom part of the equation would yield an imaginary number, and operating the equation with the imaginary number yields either near-infinite time-dilation (time stops) or inverse dilation (Delta-T is a negative value).
And that is why SR has lots of STL examples but rarely do you read about FTL examples. I recommend you look up SR and Tachyons or FTL particles.

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
Then you go to warp 9. Still no other object in your reference frame and you are still totally alone.
What is your velocity in this frame?
I'm outrunning Light.
Wrong. The answer is still ZERO.

That's the fundamental thing you're not understanding about relativity: all velocities are RELATIVE.
LOL. No. The speed of light (in a vacuum) and my emitted photons are my reference. I traveled Faster Than Light therefore I will arrive before my light trail does. The speed of light is constant in all frames, even for ships going FTL.
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