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Old November 16 2012, 08:13 PM   #158
Re: Federation Law of restricting cloaking device

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
blssdwlf wrote: View Post
You can see the light trail, aka reflected photons, as it reaches you if you're not FTL. When you are FTL with only LS sensors you are running into the light trail without the ability to see forward due to your LS sensors.
But you CAN see forward at FTL, precisely because you are still stationary in your own reference frame. This isn't even a trekism or a theoretical prediction; in the real world WE are already moving at FTL velocity with respect to distant galaxies 47 billion LY away (and they, in turn, are moving away from us faster than light). Not only do we have no trouble at all seeing what's "ahead" of us, but we can see the heavily distorted/redshifted images of those galaxies near the edge of our visual horizon.
Those examples are still of objects moving Slower Than Light. An object ACTUALLY moving at Faster-Than-Light speed will outrun light. Faster-Than-Light .

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
If that were the case, we wouldn't have people trying to come up with ways for SR to work in an FTL frame of reference. It's not complicated - it just doesn't apply.
You have it backwards: If it didn't apply, they wouldn't be trying to make it work. The reason they're still TRYING to make it work is because it is very complicated, and because we have very little data to work with on FTL reference frames (as I said above, the only ones we know of are about 47 billion light years away).
It's got nothing to do with complicated. SR simply doesn't have equations for ACTUAL FTL situations.

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
You have a fundamental misunderstanding about how relativity works.
No, you have the misunderstanding. Where in relativity does it say an Object ACTUALLY traveling Faster Than Light will be slower than Light?

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
Indeed, they were feeling the effects BEFORE THEIR SENSORS DETECTED THE SHOCKWAVE. That, too, should tell you something.
Yes, it tells me that one component is not visible, the shaking, while another is visible. That is consistent with how subspace is portrayed in Trek.

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
You're still forgetting about the issue with their respective reference frames: in SR, you are always stationary within your own reference frame, no matter what speed SOMEONE ELSE measures between the two of you.
And that light is a constant in your reference frame and that you're actually moving faster than light.

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
Special relativity. You're always stationary in your own reference frame.
Special Relativity doesn't talk about Warp drive or Actual Faster-Than-Light travel. You're just making it up now.

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
And the REASON it causes causality violations is because of that very discrepancy: I see my photons moving ahead of me, and YOU see my photons falling BEHIND me.
No. It can causality violations because an object or ship at FTL could observe an event with Object B outside of it's light cone and then potentially break causality by traveling to a point in Object B's past to change it causing a paradox.

Why? Because they are actually traveling Faster Than Light.

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
See above regarding FTL. The ship that is moving at FTL is moving at FTL speeds.
Simple question for you: you're in space, nothing around you, nothing no sensors, the most distant stars are too far away to accurately measure; IOW, you're in a reference frame that lacks any other objects other than yourself.

What is your velocity in this frame?
Slower Than Light, since no object can naturally travel FTL.

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
Now you fire your engines and accelerate forward at 3Gs for 30 seconds and then stop your engines. Still no other object in your reference frame and you are totally alone.
What is your velocity in this frame?
Still Slower Than Light.

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
Then you go to warp 9. Still no other object in your reference frame and you are still totally alone.
What is your velocity in this frame?
I'm outrunning Light. I stop my ship and wait for my light trail to catch up. I went Faster Than Light.

blssdwlf is offline   Reply With Quote