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Old November 12 2012, 12:43 AM   #51
iguana_tonante's Avatar
Location: Italy, EU
Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

Admiral2 wrote: View Post
iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Admiral2 wrote: View Post
The United States is not a Democracy and never has been. It's a Republic.
Urgh. No. The US is both a republic (a form of state in which the country is considered a "common good" and not the legal propriety of the sovereign) and a democracy (a system of governing in which all citizens have an equal say in the choices of government). I don't know why this is so difficult for some people.
Um, maybe it's because those people grew up saying the Pledge of Allegiance in school and know they didn't pledge allegiance to a "democratic republic" of the United States? Maybe it's because nowhere in the Constitution is the United States or any state government referred to as a democracy? Maybe it's because states and territories call themselves many things (republics, commonwealths, protectorates) but not one is referred to as a democratic republic?
Or maybe you should realize there are more countries in the world than the US? Forms of government do not depend by the words printed in their own constitution, but by the actual workings of their state (otherwise, North Korea would be a lovely Democratic Republic, while it's actually a dictatorial quasi-monarchy). Personally, I think it's adorable that you base your understanding of political science on the "pledge" you recited mindlessly in grade school, but probably it's just me.

Admiral2 wrote: View Post
The United States of America is a REPUBLIC. It was designed as a republic based on the First Republic (Rome), which had some democratic processes but was not a DIRECT DEMOCRACY like Athens or Sparta
Oh, look. You capitalized the important word, "direct". Athens was a direct democracy. It was not called a "republic" simply because the word was not invented yet. Rome was the "first" republic simply because res publica is a Latin word. Athenian democracy, Roman republic, and the US federation can all be considered republics, because the state was not established as a propriety of the ruler, but it was collectively "owned" by their own citizens. They were also all democracies, because the final power rested in the people (by direct voting, special assemblies, or elected representatives, and often by all three). Shocking, I know!

Admiral2 wrote: View Post
something most people who are actually educated in history more rigid than Social Studies actually get.
Lulz. If that's the history they taught you in university, I'm very sorry for you. But you are right about one thing: your vision is very rigid, beheld by school-book definitions and dogmatic formulas, without much understanding of the meaning of it.

Admiral2 wrote: View Post
Perhaps you ought to pay more attention to people who find your idea of a democratic republic "difficult."
I rarely pay attention to people who don't know what they are talking about. (And especially if they present themselves "people who are actually educated" in the topic and get crazily defensive when they are challenged in their narrow vision.)
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