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Old November 11 2012, 10:02 PM   #47
iguana_tonante's Avatar
Location: Italy, EU
Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

Admiral2 wrote: View Post
The United States is not a Democracy and never has been. It's a Republic. Each state has a republican form of government, and that means elected representatives make decisions on behalf of the people.
Urgh. No. The US is both a republic (a form of state in which the country is considered a "common good" and not the legal propriety of the sovereign) and a democracy (a system of governing in which all citizens have an equal say in the choices of government). I don't know why this is so difficult for some people.

Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
QCzar wrote: View Post
Admitted states are, truly, little more than administrative districts. States' rights fanatics hate this fact. In other words, the United States of America is a state. It's not a body or an association or a federation or a conglomerate. It's a state, a nation, a single indissoluble entity that is made up of many parts (like almost every other nation on the planet).

So when people start talking about seceding this or seceding that, it's less like a fully functioning nation wanting its "freedom back", and more like your bratty kid wanting to "secede" his room from your house. And it deserves the same response.

Do people, outside of that fail circus that is the far-right, ever take this stuff seriously?
The Founding Fathers did, as did the original states, several of which explicitly reserved the right of secession in their ratification of the Constitution.

The current state of affairs (which is what you describe above) is NOT the US that was formed in 1776. It is the "indissoluble", unitary nation that Lincoln turned it into by force of arms.


No, the question of whether or not the US would allow states to exercise their entirely Constitutional right of secession was settled, which is a different thing entirely.

As someone noted above, and declaration of secession would be made by the state, not by a citizens' petition.

And the SCOUTS ruling is wrong on the facts. If a state wants to leave, under the Constitution as it was plainly understood prior to the 1860s, it was their decision, and the Federal Congress had no say in it.
To answer QCzar's question: no, not really.
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