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Old November 4 2012, 05:04 PM   #39
Rush Limborg
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Re: Section 31 after DS9

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ But based on what we've actually seen Section 31 do, that is clearly not the case. It is not a true black ops agency, since even that would imply some kind of governmental oversight and accountability. Section 31 has none of that. They literally do whatever they want to do. Not even the blackest of black ops organizations would stoop that low. Like I said...Section 31 is nothing more than a criminal conspiracy.
Oh? You assume that not even the blackest of the black would stoop that low.

As Yoda would say, "Do not assume anything, Obi-Wan. Clear...your mind must be."

After all--see "In The Pale Moonlight". Effectively, bringing Romulans into the War meant putting countless Romulan lives--military and civilian--all in danger of being slaughtered by the Dominion.

And all of that...based on a lie.

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
LobsterAfternoon wrote: View Post

Additionally, we don't really know that 31 answers to no one.
Actually, yes, we do.
Not really. Sloan said "we're autonomous". The Federation Starfleet Charter said they were autonomous.

Julian noted 31 was "with no specific orders". So did the charter.

"Accountable to no one but yourselves?" Sloan simply replies, "You make it sound so ominous"--implying, perhaps, "I wouldn't put it that way...."

Two words--plausible deniability.

FKnight wrote: View Post
How do you take down an organization that has no headquarters and all of their operations and personnel are only known in the minds of select people? You would never be able to know who they all are, let alone take them all down and they have operatives even in the governments of the major powers of the AQ.
Exactly. Look--regardless of what was written in The Good That Men was a pipe dream of the writers, at best.

(Shameless plug--in a fanfic of mine, "Suspicious Minds", I have a certain agent note to someone we know that the Bureau can't be "rounded up"--but that, rather, 31 may need to, every once in a while "clean house"--and lead the "moralists" to think that the organization is dead.)

We don't even know if they have a basic hierarchy or leader. Section 31 is whatever and whoever it needs to be to carry out it's objectives.

Bashir: "Doesn't Section 31 have its own doctors?"

Yes -- Julian, they do.
Mm-hmm! Although, we do have Sloan imply a cell-like structure in "Extreme Measures". And the VOY novel in the Section 31 miniseries indicates that these cells have "Directors"--Sloan being one of them.
"The saying implies but does not name the effective agency of its supposed utopia.... 'Needs and abilities' are, of course, subjective. So the operative statement may be reduced to 'the State shall take, the State shall give'."
--David Mamet
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