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Old November 1 2012, 10:31 PM   #116
The Imperious Leader
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Location: San Antonio, Texas
Re: Sacrifice of the Angels Ending A Deus Ex Machina?

Christopher wrote: View Post
Vanyel wrote: View Post
And that then undermines the whole premise of the Prophets. They see the past present and future as one. To them time is like what looking down on a ruler is us, all one thing. If Sisko had to convince them into doing what he wanted then they no longer see time as one. If a point in time needs to brought to their attention, they no longer see time as one. Which is it?
There's no real contradiction there. The idea that there is a contradiction is based on the perception that the Prophets "know in advance" what's going to happen and thus don't have to be convinced. But that doesn't make sense because there is no "in advance" from the Prophets' POV, no before or after. Everything is right now to them. Cause and effect are simultaneous.

But the key is that there still has to be a cause. Yes, they have "always known" that they would have to do this. But why did they know that? Because Sisko told them they would have to do this. To us, from our linear perspective, it looks like they had foreknowledge that he would tell them and that it was therefore redundant for him to tell them. But they didn't have foreknowledge, because the concept of "before" does not apply to their perception. They just had knowledge. To them, Sisko telling them happens at the same time as everything else in the universe. It's still the cause that produces the effect, the motivation that provokes them to act. Whether it comes before or after their awareness of that result has no meaning from their perspective, because to them there is no such thing as before and after. There's only cause and effect occurring simultaneously. And effects still need their causes.
Si if Sisko's argument wasn't persuasive enough, would they have let him die or plucked him off the Defiant and put him the Fire Caves for his destiny? Or let him die? Or say well he wasn't really our Emissary, this person is.
You have gone too far. You have married Fester, you have destroyed his spirit, you have taken him from us. All that I could forgive. But Debbie...
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