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Old October 16 2012, 09:47 AM   #79
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Re: TNG Characters in the JJ-Verse

That didn't last long.
Actually it's still in effect because I haven't said Orci stated the probability to be 100%.

It's possible you may be misinterpreting what is meant by "very high"; after all, he doesn't give a number.
As I explained, if the film depicts something that is possible, there is no need for superstitious explanation. You may see the film as "ridiculous", but you don't speak for everyone.
The funny thing (apart from your redefinition of "very high" to mean "low") is that your quote of Oric is his attempt to make parts of the film look less "ridiculous" (I am not saying the whole thing is implausible of course). So, while there may be a few fans who are willing to overlook almost anything, it appears I speak for the writers! After all, there wouldn't be any point in him saying anything if he thought his alternative "scientific" explanation had so low a probability that he had to resort to fate or mysticism etc. It seems he does, but he appears to believe otherwise.

Hardly. The film said nothing about "Pantheism". You seem to be projecting an interpretation onto it. What I saw in the film was Spock Prime trying to make something happen because he thought it was a good idea. No magic, fantasy, or superstition required.
We are not talking about Spock Prime's actions. We are talking about the likelihood of all the original crew getting together almost a decade before they did in the prime timeline (and in particular event like the chances of Spock Prime meeting Krik and Scotty on DV) despite significant disruption.

UFO wrote:
The phrase I referred to comes from the movie
No, it doesn't.
Thanks for quoting me out of context. I said "(if I remember it correctly)". It seems I didn't. And that's weird because I must have read it somewhere.

There is a thread here that describes a deleted scene that contains that idea and Memory Alpha states it is still in the novelisation but neither explains why I thought it was in the movie, so perhaps somewhere there is a suggestion that it was?

Anyway, in the above thread there is a quote from the screen play where Spock Prime refers to the crew of the Enterprise:
Perhaps the time stream's way of attempting to mend itself. In both our histories, the same crew found its way onto the same ship in a time of ultimate crisis -- therein lies our advantage.
Now this isn't canon but it does indicate the writer's intentions at that time (which you seem to value). Ie. It looks for all the world like some form of mysticism, fate, pantheism or whatever. Spock Prime also talks of destiny though that could be part of his smokescreen so he didn't have to go with Kirk and thus prevent Kirk from getting into the captain's chair.

And of course the only way to avoid the relentless feeling that things are only happening because the writers need it to, is to suppose some form of destiny. Unfortunately that just makes the film look like a fantasy. So we know how things look. The only question is did the writers change their minds and try to later paint things in scientific terms?
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