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Old September 30 2012, 07:26 PM   #157
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Re: 7X05 The Angels Take Manhattan (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!)

Iamnotspock wrote: View Post
Starkers wrote: View Post
Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
That's Christopher Bidmead's argument against Moffat's work as well -- it feels like a first draft. To be fair, Moffat's work isn't always a first draft; the next Christmas script went through six drafts and several blown deadlines. But Moffat has said he wants his Doctor Who work to feel like a first draft -- breathless, passionate, running from moment to moment, with no hint as to what's around the next plot twist.
I thought Bidmead said that about RTD? Or maybe he just uses it for all modern Who writers? One wonders how many iterations the Logopolis script went through yet still included a scene where the Doctor planned to flood the Tardis in order to flush the Master out, still one of the most ludicrous moments in Who ever!
Yes, that was indeed Bidmead's argument about Russell T Davies, not Moffat. I'm inclined to agree with him (although it's a tad hypocritical!), in that generally speaking I think that label applies much more to Davies than Moffat. That said, last night felt to me in many ways the most "RTD" that Moffat has ever been; the Statue of Liberty being able to go walkabout Ghostbusters II-style without anyone noticing in the city that never sleeps, for example. That kind of "spectacle over plot logic" was very Russell IMHO.
well I've always said the two of them aren't that different in that both place story above logic, RTD just dazzles you with bright lights and loud music while Moffat relies on sleight of hand and smoke and mirrors
Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
Captain_Amasov wrote: View Post
The issue there is that in all of the proceeding scenes of the Doctor traveling backward through his own timeline, we're shown that he couldn't physically be observed by anyone in the those events, due to him traveling in the opposite direction in time to everyone else. It appeared that he also couldn't physically interact with anyone either, which makes it rather odd that he can even pick young Amelia up at the end there.
He physically interacted with Amy twice in the rewind. First, during "The Time of Angels" -- he holds her hands, talks to her, and kisses her on the forehead. Then, when he reaches events from "The Eleventh Hour," he picks her up and puts her in bed. Arguably there's a third time -- he shouts at Amy after events in "The Lodger" and she hears him but can't see him.

If you want an explanation, I'd venture that the closer the Doctor approached "The Eleventh Hour" in his personal timeline, the more physically present he was with the rebooted universe.
I always figured Amy heard his speech to her while she was sleeping as well, subconsciously at least.
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