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Old September 29 2012, 01:09 AM   #166
UFO
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Re: Who likes Spock/Uhura too?

Malaika wrote: View Post
I was about to write something similar.
and sorry Ufo, I don't have the energy to read everything you said and reply again. I don't want to go off topic again, plus it's pretty much obvious that you are as biased as the rest of us is although from the tone of your posts I bet you think that your interpretations are undeniable absolute facts.
No, I believe they are matters of probability only. I was going by what we have every reason to expect of the Spock character from what we see in TOS. I have explained my reasons for preferring Spock to remain true to that character if that’s what qualifies as "biased" in your view. The movies suggest he became more relaxed in later life and that does make a certain amount of sense (being around humans and dieing of course) but I don’t recall he ever had a relationship in any of them. I have also explained why I believe a younger Spock would, if anything, be more Vulcan rather than less, fresh out of Vulcan socialisation. Now his mother may have off set that but if so, why does he decide to become more Vulcan later on? And could he even do so if his training had been "corrupted"?

Now you may believe I am mistaken in any or all, of the above, but the important thing to understand is that those reasons are a more than adequate defence against your charges of double standards and hypocrisy. In particular they explain why I think nuSpock is far less likely to be "available" for a relationship with Uhura or any other woman. As for my "tone", that probably had more to do with being wrongly accused of having double standards and your apparent assumption that anyone who disagrees with your view of the situation has to be morally suspect.

UFO wrote:
First, as mentioned, it was only "sudden" from our point of view.
and we can say the same about the ones that dislike Spock/Uhura for the same reason
UFO wrote:
It seems you were suffering from shock (of more than one type), not implausibility.
same as above
UFO wrote:
It could have easily progress[ed] over years of "prime time", to coin a phrase, before STV. It just didn’t show up on screen before that.
same could be said about Spock/Uhura both in TOS and ST09
Then, If we want to talk about hints from TOS then Nichelle Nichols is totally right. Between the two the only CANON clues we could find in TOS did hint to Spock/Uhura and never to Scotty/Uhura. Whatever you think that happened offscreen between Scotty/Uhura is up to you and your opinion. It's also called fanfiction. But it makes your argument against Spock/Uhura hypocritical for afore mentioned reasons and the number of excuses you are using to justify Scotty/Uhura all the while denying Spock/Uhura for the reasons that seem to make you believe that the first were not only believable but happened (of screen, in your fantasy) in TOS
all the while denying or minimize the actual hints of Spock/Uhura
Firstly, I did not say I thought anything happened between Uhura and Scotty before STV. It was speculation, so please don’t put words in my mouth or be so quick to jump to conclusions. Actually, I don’t think either relationship needs prior justifications or "hints". The only question for me is: When the shock wears off, does it make sense? Nothing prevented Scotty/Uhura from making sense at that time (STV). It even worked fairly well until that silly bit at the end. But, as mentioned above, Spock/Uhura is a different story. Other people may only be concerned with whether they like Spock and Uhura together. They may put believability in terms of TOS consistency, aside. I just don’t agree it’s a good idea to do that on this occasion.

Second, I would not be surprised if you don’t know what the word "hypocritical" actually means, or that it is a rather nasty insult to throw around so causally. For example it does not mean: "Only stating one side of a case". If it did, debaters would all be hypocrites! It certainly doesn’t mean: "Trying to explain why (in this case) the shock of seeing Scotty and Uhura together does not mean such a relationship couldn’t have developed", which, of course, is all I was doing. I have never denied that any of the statements of mine you quote above (concerning Scotty), couldn’t also apply (theoretically) to Spock. If you think I did, please point it out. Otherwise, please tell me, where is the double standard or hypocrisy in what I actually said as apposed to what you assume I meant?

Malaika wrote: View Post
And I see what you're trying to do with the comment about Uhura flirting with Spock as her being just playful, it just adds even more double standard in the whole Spock/Uhura vs Uhura/Scotty argument: She still had, in text, flirting scenes with SPOCK, unlike Scotty. So she showed, to some degree, an interest in him (he also did teach her how to play the vulcan lyre and he complimented her)
All that is happening is I am suggesting one explanation for what was going on in TOS and you are suggesting other. For some reason you are allowed to try to spin those scenes your way, but I am not allowed to spin them my way, under pain of being branded immoral no less! Kind of ironic for someone claiming others have double standards.

So once again:
UFO wrote:
Where is the double standard here? ... .
I see plenty but I won't argument this more than that
It’s sad that you attempted to sully my character without providing at least one legitimate example to back up your claim. That hardly seems fair. On the other hand, if you find something I will happily apologise and retract it (or perhaps explain why its not really a double standard if you haven't yet got a handle on that).

By the way I am glad you found some of my post funny. Now that I have cooled down a bit, I actually find your unfortunate quote below hilarious too:

Malaika wrote: View Post
... especially not Uhura/Scotty that not only did came out from nowhere in TFF … but it was bad taste, frankly, as they were old people …"
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