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Old September 26 2012, 03:53 PM   #73
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Re: Did Kirk captain any ship before Enterprise?

Tiberius wrote: View Post
Not really. Kirk, before he was given the Enterprise, could have made it clear to the brass that he wanted Cary with him on his first command.

Or it could have been that when he found out that Starfleet was going to make him a captain and give him a ship, he said he wanted Mitchell along. And since he didn't know the name of the ship yet, he could only refer to it as his first command.
Again -- for the third or fourth time -- while all of that may technically be possible, I'm far from convinced that Dehner would have chosen her words that way in that particular context if that had been what she meant. Something can be technically true but still not be something a character would have any reason to call attention to in a particular context.

Given how young Kirk is, it seems to me that the line is to show that they've been friends non-stop since the academy. They would have had a long history serving together and being friends since then without Kirk commanding.
Well, yes, but there's no reason why he couldn't have had an earlier command. There's no evidence we have that's inconsistent with that view, and it's reasonable to believe he would have.

She may have been quoting Kirk's own words. Besides, Kirk was only 31 when he got the Enterprise, which is quite young. I doubt he'd been captain of a ship before.
Again, remember that a ship's commanding officer does not need to hold the rank of captain. TMoST said that his first command was a smaller ship, a destroyer equivalent, while he had commander's rank.

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Taking lines from WNMHGB as irrefutable fact seems a little pointless to me.
Again, where is all this counterfactual rubbish about "conclusive proof" and "irrefutable fact" coming from? Nobody is claiming anything of the sort. We're just discussing possibilities. Any reasonable observer would conclude that it's impossible to prove anything about this. It's a topic within a work of fiction that was never addressed except in one ambiguous line of dialogue. Even attempting to cast the discussion in terms of proof is nonsense. Of course there's nothing to prove because the characters and institutions we're talking about don't actually exist. The best anyone can say about any interpretation is that it sounds more or less plausible than another. It's a completely abstract discussion about what might have been the case in an imaginary story some people made up decades ago, pure speculation about something there's virtually no evidence about and never will be. So can we please just relax and stop taking it so damn seriously?

It was a pilot episode where Spock wore yellow and had "a human ancestor", where Sulu wore blue, and where Kirk had a BFF that never came up again in canon Trek. It's a great episode, but as with most pilots it's not entirely continuous with the series proper.
I don't see how any of those represent serious continuity problems. Sulu simply changed jobs, and the uniform designs were changed. (Really, as first officer, Spock should have worn command gold; the producers probably just figured he looked better in blue.) And no character important in Kirk's life was brought up outside the episode in which he or she appeared, because that's how '60s television always worked. And Spock may have simply been reticent to admit how much human blood he had. These are no worse than the continuity glitches that showed up within the series itself.
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